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Veganism

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by A Better World, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. miserablist

    miserablist Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    Don't talk bollocks you self righteous numpty. Anarchism and dietary choices have fuck all to do with one another. Anarchism is about class struggle not fucking lifestyle choices. So any anarchist that's not a vegan is a hypocrite? That means that the vast majority of the world's anarchists are hypocrites because then doesn't it. Cock
    :@
     
  2. ILuvEire

    ILuvEire Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Apr 5, 2010
     
    Just curious, what made you change your mind to stop being vegan?
     
  3. miserablist

    miserablist Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    I've drunk a couple of bottles of wine so probab;y not the best time to answer.
    Basically I looked at why I was vegan and came to the conclusion that I had no ethical problem with the eating of meat/killing of animals for resources but only with the fucked up capitalist way of treating animals. I was therefore only vegan as a form of consumer boycott, a tactic that has never worked, ever. So there is no point abstaining from something you enjoy, and I enjoy eating animals, if it does not harm the overarching system.
    Better to just get on with life and work towards the demise of capitalism without the alienating ascetisim of dietary fetishism.
     
  4. CrustyElmo666

    CrustyElmo666 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Oct 12, 2009
     
    Since when is boycott and protest a compleately ineffective tactic? sure it may not topple the system but... aw well, i'm vegan/vegetarian for the the exact same reason as you the capitalistic domination of animals, and to me it is that belief that is intrinsic to veganism and in this way it could be considered akin to anarchism, i guess. But saying that, if an animal is humanely raised and slaughtered or wild and humanely hunted or caught I would have no problem eating it, I also would never pass up a quality cheese or the humanely harvested bounty of the ocean... quality (well and humanely, but i hope you get my drift) being the opprative word, for it is quality that is removed from food under these domineering techniques and from life for the animals and life for us as well...

    Also I would never want to live in a world where everyone was vegetarian because the only way I can envision is for it to be heavely industrialized, also i could not see it without infringement on basic human right.... so much so that i would even consider it to be a very negative post-human state of existence... for humans are by right omnivores, just look at our teeth, I just don't see how anyone could foundingly argue against that... Anarchy to me is about residing back into these natural laws of existence that we as a species have so far removed our selves from some how... In the reconciled world we dream of I would not see such a prevalence of conventional vegetarianism as the norm, now does that mean I would be a big game hunter? By no means, just that the barriers would not be so ridged.... But until then I see veganism coupled with this anti donination mentality as an important stride against capitalism.
     
  5. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Utter nonsense.
     
  6. miserablist

    miserablist Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    Boycott's don't work and never have. The most wide spread commercial boycott has to be the Nestle boycott over their practices in Africa. This has been ongoing since at least the 1970's and the only effect it has had is that your aunt Mabel may have heard of it. It didn't affect Nestle's practices. Vegetarianism is the largest of all boycott's and has been going for over a century yet the meat industry thrives.

    Basically, you can't boycott capitalism and trying to play economic games based around consumer choices can't succeed, the rules are - remember - designed to ensure the success of capital. Consumer boycotts merely open new markets to be exploited whether this is veggie burgers or another brand of shit cheap coffee to replace the Nescafe you don't buy. You may not buy McDonalds but you buy a veggie burger from the capitalist further down the street.

    My other problem with boycotts and veggie/veganism is the ascetic morality that comes along with them. It's similar in vein to the politics of austerity that accompanies environmental politics. The need to reduce the pleasure of life for some perceived moral obligation. I don't want to make life harder, simpler or more austere for people. I want everyone to live in the luxury that is possible through our communal labour. I want a hot tub and 72"plasma screen TV in every home that wants one. I want every community centre to be Versailles, every subway station St. Paul's. The ascetic morality of veganism would not allow for that.
     
  7. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 31, 2010
     
    You consider it a luxury to eat shite?
     
  8. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Amen!
     
  9. LucidStrike

    LucidStrike Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 1, 2009
     
    Ugh. Lifestyle choices? Exploitation, slavery, sexual assault, and murder are just lifestyle choices to you? You sound like Joe fuckin' Yuppie sayin' some callous shit like that. Geez.

    Anarchists oppose hierarchy, coercion, and oppression, all of which are elements of human exceptionalism. Anarchists who fight for human animals but knowingly and willingly oppress nonhuman animals are being hypocrites, drawing some arbitrary distinction not unlike the politicians, CEOs, cops, and fascists we oppose.

    Besides, I think anarchists do a lot of hypocritical shit in general not because we're disingenuous fuckers (though there are many of them among us) but because of the society in which we live.

    It's not really even about a boycott. I'm not fuckin' stupid. I know that even vegans play a part in the system of animal exploitation. That can be said for most any system of oppression in existence. I never said "Veganism is all there is to animal lib". It's about principle. Where's the principle in rescuin' animals from farms if you're eatin' 'em?

    Also, keep your crappy personal "insults" to yourself, k? Thanks.
     
  10. Bakica

    Bakica Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    well whats the point of it? I mean the animal is dead either you buy it and eat it or not. I hate eating meat becouse I have a feeling of guilty. But when I think a bit I understand that I cant do anything becouse someone alse is going to buy that meat and eat it and it doesnt matter who as long as animal is dead.

    sorry for question :p
     
  11. LucidStrike

    LucidStrike Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 1, 2009
     
    Why apologize? It wasn't offensive. =/

    Anyway, 'If I don't exploit ___, someone else will, so I might as well' is the same ridiculous excuse we hear from the people we oppose.

    What separates the anarchists from the others? Is it enough for the CEO of the exploitive multi-national corporation to have a philosophical opposition to capitalism, for the riot cop to recognize the state as an unnecessary and undesirable force, or for the rapist to hold Emma Goldman dear to his heart?

    We may sometimes be forced to make compromises, to comply,as things go, but we are always to resist. Willingly participating in systems of oppression is plain hypocrisy.
     
  12. Bakica

    Bakica Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    yeah..i think youre right..I was thinking of becoming vegetarian and then I have met this problem.
     
  13. miserablist

    miserablist Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    Meat is not shite. Shitty processed meat is shite but a prime cut of venison or a lincolnshire sausage are not shite. Meat is/can be a part of a healthy diet.
     
  14. miserablist

    miserablist Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    Jesus wept, are you even self aware? Your choice of diet is a lifestyle choice you tool, same as the clothes you wear, the way you live. It is part of your lifestyle, the style in which you live your life. What part of that don't you understand. Your choice of lifestyle is not radical, rebellious or a threat to capitalism. It's bourgeois individualist nonsense to think that your consumer choices make a difference. And fuck ye with that yuppie jibe, yuppies would support your notion of the importance and efficacy of consumer choices. Puts more money in their wallets doesn't it?

    Not at all. To say that the difference between humanity and other animals is arbitrary is show a distinct lack of understanding of both our species and others.
    To respond to your points about what anarchists do. We oppose hierarchy in society as well as coercion and oppression in society. Anarchism is about class struggle. Humans engage in class struggle, not animals. The only role that animals can play in the class struggle is to be used as necessary whether that is to feed us or act as beasts of burden in the fields. Just because you've got some screwed up privileged liberal western bourgeois notion with regards fluffy little animals.
    If you don't want to eat animals or wear leather that's fine and I totally respect your choice to do so; but don't go conflating your emotional baggage with my politics or my class.

    What? You mean like have jobs? Shower? Get married? Have kids? Act like normal people rather than some ghettoised sub-cultural misfits?

    That means absolutely nothing. It's about 'principle', jesus wept.

    Stop talking shit about anarchism then. It's got nothing to do with animal rights and everything to do with class struggle. It's fine if you want to create an ideology based around the equality of all living species. Just don't try and call it anarchism, how about "furry"?
     
  15. nodz

    nodz Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2010
     
  16. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Nah, all meat is shite, and yeah, I think there is a connection between anarchism and veganism. Ok, I hear what you saying, but it's a lot like listening to smokers trying to defend smoking.
     
  17. miserablist

    miserablist Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    How is it like listening to smokers trying to defend smoking? There is nothing inherently unhealthy about eating meat. There are problems with people living unhealthy lifestyles but not with meat in itself.
     
  18. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Eating meat is an addiction.
     
  19. miserablist

    miserablist Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    No it's not don't be bloody ridiculous. I was vegetarian/vegan for ages and now I'm a meat eater. I don't eat a lot. I don't get cravings. It's not bad for me. How is it an addiction?
     
  20. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 22, 2009
     
    I think what this ultimately comes down to is biocentrism vs anthropocentrism(sp) and sometimes it's hard to get people to change an entire system of ethics by being a dogmatic asshat. I'm a vegan and absolute biocentrist, but I choose to lead by example and not force. That being said I would fight for AR just the same that I would fight for the Earth or for the humans that inhabit it (poorly I might add), but I wouldn't force you to fight for them with me, that's something you should choose for yourself. There are also other points you can bring up besides morals when discussing veganism, like the environment or the poor conditions of the workers. In fact I'm suprised that anarchists don't bring up the poor conditions of the workers more often, because it seems more relevant to the lameass "classical" anarchism that most anarchists subscribe to, their fingernails fall out for crust's sake!!! :o
     
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