Most cliche bands?

Don't put words in my mouth, if you want to start trading insults then VETE A CHINGAR A TU MADRE PENDEJO. You can worship at the SP teat all you want, just don't try and convince me I owe my punk ethos to that band. I'm not an Anglophile, and what the fuck are you on about american's and hot dogs and the chinese? I'm Chicano genius, and we have a very long-standing tradition of being a part of Punk Rock without Anglo influence, why the fuck is this so hard to understand for some of you? You have to try to shove your skewed version of history down my throat? Well it's not true here, simple as that, and if you insist on teaching us our own history then your no better than the state...traga mierda!

 

THE CASUALTIES , AND HELLCAT BANDS

 

Punkmar... I am not saying that Sex Pistols are THE most important band, I am just saying that they are a very important part of punk history, more so for England than for other countries. Yes, punk would have done fine without them, but things would have been drastically different. Love them or hate them, at least respect what they did. And as punk cliche as they may be, there really wasn't anything like them before (not saying that there wasn't punk bands before them because there was), though their a millions of bands like them now. So would they be the cliche or would the bands that came after be cliche?

 

I really don't have a problem recognizing their importance, I'm not dense, and it wasn't even me that decided they are cliche. But when people start talking about a post-Pistols era I just have to laugh, because it dismisses a lot of very important musicians and bands not just in the U.S., but around the world. I don't hate what they did, or them as people or musicians. I take it a little personal when people start telling me how it went down when they weren't around. Once upon a time being a punk was hazardous to your health, we were fucked with, persecuted, labeled as faggots and freaks, beat up, harrased by police etc. etc. Its a whole lifetime of Punk and Anarchism and Anti-fa activism thats not in any book.

 

i agree with last post but i never said what u did in your last post, all I said was 'u r being a dick', now u are not, thanx.

i am also agree with ring of truth, think u may have eschewed my thoughts and don't point at language 'efe au', i just think you painted anyone who thought they were influential personal or not with the same brush umm

damn chicanos, they all work in cropfields, yea, (sarcasm) 'back in the dayyy' yea right haha

 

...BECAUSE they set the template that everybody else followed.

This is all essentially correct.

Yes, but it's important to note that John Lydon was more significant than Vivienne Westwood in shaping that style. He already was wearing a lot of what would be the hallmarks of punk before he joined the band.

This is really the one part where you're off base and you seem to almost be arguing with yourself. The Pistols cannot be considered cliche because everybody copied them, that's the opposite of cliche. It only can be true if you exist in a unique quantum state where time is flowing backwards. Some schools of quantum physics assert that time is not necessarily linear, however, from the human perspective it only flows one way. So far, at least.

Probably the most important.

Yes, the Exploited and the Casualties would be very good examples of what one might consider punk rock cliches.

Lydon disliked the Dolls as far as I know, although he did like some of the Velvet Underground. They weren't an influence, stylistically. This also goes to what you were saying about the Ramones, they did precede British punk, but they didn't poularize the few elements that they share with British punk. There was an underlying similarity, in principle, but it was largely two seperate epochs, which combined after the fact.

 

I'm sorry, but this just isn't so. There were "punk" bands in Californmia before the Pistols. Iggy Pop, the Runaways, Crime, the Nuns, etc., but everything that came after was directly influenced by the Pistols or bands that were inspired by the Pistols. Without them there's no Buzzcocks, no Clash, no Banshees, no Gen X, No Damned, thus no second wave British punk like Crass, Discharge, Conflict, etc., and as far as America is concerned no Germs, Screamers, Weirdos, X, Black Flag, Bad Religion, Minor Threat, etc., essentially no punk as we know it.
So how big of an influence they were on California punk is minimal roughly up until just after the Damned's first record comes out (The Damned having been inspired by the Pistols.), then you'd have to throw out everything that came after that point. So yeah, there probably would have been something called punk rock, but nine-tenths of the music that people who subscribe to this site listen to would be gone, and most of what I'd consider to be the best California punk bands.

 

As a whole the immediate impact omn American culture was negligible. But for people like Darby Crash, Keith Morris, etc., etc., they were very deeply influenced by what was going on across the Atlantic.

It amazes me that so many people on here buy McLaren's self-promotion hook, line & sinker. I guess that's what pays his bills, but seriously, even a cursory examination will show he had zero creative input. His biggest contribution was securing a rehearsal space, and informing Steve Jones that he might want to look for a frontman. He never turned up at rehearsals and rarely appeared at their gigs. All songs were written by Lydon/ Matlock. Most of the style of dress came from John Lydon, who was arlready dyeing his hair, wearing ripped, scrawled-on clothes with safety pins, etc. Malcolm didn't provide anything beyond a venue. He was necessary for the band to exist, but he had no input on the actual material. Lastly, to define a band as homely and unpalatable (To the mainstream.) as the Sex Pistols as a "boy band" is just disingenuous.

 

NONONONONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

Not this debate again :/

 

you r taking some historical referance too literrally which makes you *cough, can u stop being sooo self rightious, i'm just not sure you can, u make all the rest of us sp fans look like mincers, no wunda people rag on em apart from not liking them, maclaren pushed them iinto the 'mainstream' and also pulled them apart, this seems to be the reason people listen to one 'style' of punk music, u will note the brit banz all sounded rather diff and thats why sum hate them too, idiots, do u get the irony of punk or not isten to the words like all the other people you seemingly dismiss

all the best bands were ripping from the ramones like the ramones ripped off 60's doowop, c'mon! but the net didn't exist so they also had to pull from influence and make shit up oh plus the idea of being original hadn't been killed yet or the endeavour of just doing it while being infleunced by great music and not so great makers and doing it the best you could without being wank

u deny the importance of banz like the nuns and every other garage rock band around like 'the troggs' or or or, c'mon, u undermine older folk who were down on the ground too, c'mon

musicians and artists have been challenging the status quo as long as i can remember, television was entrenching itself and in a downturn lots of people seemed to be watching it, its all i ever saw snippets of punk rock for 2 sex as a kid

just cause john says so don't make it so, e shuda taught ya that, maclaren had a role, not as small as lydon may makeout and/or maclaren plays up, i've been in bands and can tell u its best to go for the middle ground or no history will exist at all unless someone got murdered etc

start being a fan of music and not just the sp's fan from the word fanatic, the exploited first album was influential and i'm not fan and the only people who take mclarens promotion hook as gospel r kids and those who watch farrr too much television , why r u surprised, they were on virgin records and dumbasses have been trying to emulate ever since wen the other members moved on, i didn't go to their reunion, fuck that, including fox's the simpsons, they were even on bbc, wat a surprise, now the wetha, 3 posts of quotey quotey, edit edit edit

 

NGNM85: You don't know what the fuck your talking about, Iggy Pop is from Detroit, The Runaways were formed in New York (with two California natives) And you continously fail to mention that The Zeros Pre-date Both the Ramones and the Sex Pistols. Like I said before your full of shit and your an Arrogant and Misguided know it all who thinks that everything he reads is gospel. In the '77 Punk thread some one has posted The Zero's playing live on San Diego television, summer of 1977 they had already been playing for close to two years at that point. From now on you can scream about your fantasies till your blue in the face, I won't respond to your posts any further. METETE EL DEDO EN EL CULO

 

BURN.

 

Ya Basta!

 

WHY IS THERE ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD OF PEOPLE BITCHING ABOUT BANDS AND SHIT, STOP MAKING THE FUCKING THREADS PLEASE

 

If you are going to talk the first punk band then... From the research that I have done I have found it to be the Fuggs in New York, they even predated the Velvet Underground. They were great, they were different, political, and funny. If you want to check out arguably the first punk band check them out, they got going around the time that the Beatles came to the States (to give you a time frame).

Besides the only reason I mentioned the stuff about the Pistols is because people were arguing that they were Cliche, and I just wanted to make the point that to look at them now they are, but if you look at them from when they started they were definitely not Cliche... I mean in someways there are still few bands that have done what they have, and they will always be shrouded with mystery, which is just how it should be. But let us move on now.

 

Basically anything on Punkcore.

 

everythings a debate with you guys

 

yes punkcore records is pretty much nothing but cliche bands. I mean at first I liked some of the bands... but after awhile I realized it was nothing but formula punk that all sounds pretty much the same... it sounds like the Pistols mixed with the Exploited. Which is why I really don't listen to much Street Punk anymore.

 

Well... Somehow i like Cliche bands. Maybe because it's so cliche that's it's a laugh (for example Exploited).