Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

anti flag good or bad?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by corpratedeath, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. Rathryn

    Rathryn Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    853

    1

    0

    Oct 21, 2009
     
    I can't remember someone saying Anti-Flag was anarchist 0.o
    They've been labelled as political, yes. But not anarchist.
     
  2. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,341

    8

    156

    Oct 18, 2009
    Male , 46 years old
    Long Beach CA  United States
    i do have to say, as superficial as this will make me sound, but part of why i stayed away from them is their name. how generic and lame a name can you have? Let's evoke better bands we will never come close to with our name, like Black Flag! like Anti-Scism! like White Flag!
     
  3. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    304

    0

    7

    Oct 14, 2009
     
    Anti-Schism, fucking rules.
    Do does Detestation.
     
  4. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    I love both those bands.
     
  5. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    I'll just bypass the gross disservice you are doing to The Clash, who are one of the greatest groups of all time, to move on to some of your more egregious misstatements.

    OF COURSE they were 'bad musicians"! (By classical standards.) That was part of the whole point! Punk rock originated as a reaction AGAINST prevailing trends in rock and pop music. The prevailing tendancy of the day was these long drawn out guitar soloa and ultra-complicated arrangements, etc., etc. Punk was bringing rock'n roll back to it's roots, back to the days of Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry; three chords and an attitude.
    Not to mention that none of the members had ANY classical musical training, except perhaps Matlock, I don't know, he was the only real musician in the group, for sure. That was part of the whole idea, throwing out the rules. The idea that message supersedes packaging, that you don't have to be a plastic mannequin like Christina Aguilera, or New KIds on the Block but just say what you feel and be who you are and respect yourself for doing it.

    I want you to pause for a moment, wait for it...

    ...Sid WASN'T just in the band for his image.

    Really. This Is why I said you should do your homework first. John Simon Beverly/Ritchie. (His parents never married, and her mother married Mr. Ritchie shortly after his father took off, but he died shortly afterwards.) John Simon/Sid met John Lydon just after high school while briefly attending art school. They were pals and shared similar interests, they shared a squat together for some time. They were part of the "Gang of Johns" which also included John Gray, and John Wardle aka Jah Wobble who later played bass for Lydon's second band Public Image Limited. (A very good band, btw.) One of the regular pitstops for this motley crew was Malcolm's store, which is how they came to the attention of Paul Cook, Steve Jones, and Glan Matlock, who were looking for a singer. Sid, then John Simon, and John Lydon had been friends for some time when John formed the Pistols, and (I'm just going to call him Sid from now on because I'm lazy.) "Sid" was probably their first, and biggest fan. He went to all their gigs, because he hung out with Lydon anyway, and he was a member of the "Bromley Contingent" a small group of die-hard Pistols fans that formed around the group shortly after they started, which also included Siouxsie Sioux, Steve Severin, and Billy Idol, to name a few, although he later claimed he had never been. Glen was a bit of an outsider in the group, being the most musically talented and having slightly different musical tastes than some of the other members, he and Lydon especially got into a feud, which was probably exacerbated by McLaren, ultimately resulting in Glen leaving the band. They needed a new bassist, and Lydon had always felt a bit isolated because Cook & Jones had been friends for years, and even Matlock knew them before he did so he probably felt like a bit of an outsider, so he brought in his friend, who loved the band and knew the music to play bass. It didn't matter that Sid couldn't play because that wasn't important. (Though he was in a short-lived band with Siouxsie called the Flowers of Romance.) As an aside, when he wasn't high or strung out Sid was actually a pretty good performer. (See his renditions of "My Way", "Something Else", "C'mon Everybody", etc.) The origin of his nom de guerre is debated, although it probably has something to do with an incident involving a pet hamster, although Nick Kent claims it's because of an altercation he had with Sid but I think he's just trying to inflate his significance. So..... In a nutshell,...No, he wasn't in the band for his image.
    "Epic Fail" in the modern parlance. I mean, if you'd even watched a "Behind the Music" special or something you would've known that.

    In what country? I saw them in 2003 for 30 bucks, although I bought the tickets through a friends' mother and she was nice enough to spring for the good seats which I think were 45. I'm a Sex Pistols SUPERFAN, so I had no problem with it, but that's hardly outrageous for such a huge band. They are considered one of the most influential bands since the birth of Rock. Rightfully so, I might add. What other band thats' still together of that significance can you see for less? If you go to a big arena show that thousands of people want to go to, it's gonna cost more. I pay a couple bucks when I go to the Middle East's basement, at the Pavillion I EXPECT to pay more. That's how those arenas are.

    I myself have criticized the band over the last few years, but they're 50 now. I dunno. Besides, it's not like they made any money the first time around.

    I'm exhausted from arguing with an idiot.

    Bad Religion are brilliant. Now even indie labels are too mainstream. Yes. Once a band sells more than twenty records they must be defamed and hated and the retarded punk police must tear them down. Very well. This is pointless...
     
  6. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    977

    1

    4

    Oct 8, 2009
     
    almost socialist,
    the sex pistols have to be the worst false idols ever.
     
  7. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    To be "punk" seems to have become so abstracted from it's original intention that it's almost comical. sometimes I wonder if "punk" kids of the future will have to use sticks and stones to produce trash music and release it via carrier pigeon (on a sliding scale basis of course) to a never expanding fan base to be considered punk. Don't get me wrong. I love punk music. I just hate people who think they can even begin to define it.
     
  8. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    977

    1

    4

    Oct 8, 2009
     
    everyone has their own interpretations
     
  9. Rathryn

    Rathryn Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    853

    1

    0

    Oct 21, 2009
     
    I'm just going to add more fuel to the flame and I don't care, I like virtually all variations of punk to a certain extent, including but not limited to: Bad Religion, NOFX, Sex Pistols, the Clash, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Flowers of Romance, Anti-Schism, Black Flag, hell the list goes on.
    The only criteria I use for a shitty band is the one I can never find myself in the mood for or not one of my friends reacts to in a positive way. If I go to gigs, I want to have a good time, period, don't really care who's playing so long as it ain't something like Tokyo Hotel or the Jonas Bros.
    And if you want lousy punk I have some really shitty demos you could give a listen to, they're a lot worse than either the Clash or Sex Pistols according to Cocytus.
     
  10. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    I dated a girl once who was obsesse with the lead singer of Tokyo hotel...it actually led me to sometimes question her sexual orientation because of his ridiculous level of sexual ambiguity q: he looks sort of like Cher. but whatever floats her boat I guess :D
     
  11. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    304

    0

    7

    Oct 14, 2009
     
    Case in point.

    Why dont you read some books like the day the country died, Swedish punk 1977-1986, Lords of chaos, etc.

    Also, what band from back then is still around that you can see cheaper than that trashcan garbage bullshit caled the sex pistols?

    Conflict.

    I dont care what you say, anyone with a fucking brain in thier heads already agrees what I am about to say.

    The pistols, will never, ever, ever, ever, EVER, Be on par with Conflict.

    Name a band that did as much as they have, for as long as they have, has been politically active and did so many positive things for the music scene in general?

    Did the pistols start a record label?
    No.
    Did they organize massive shows supporting local acts, which in turn were also protests, which in the early/mid 80s were met with violent oppsosition from the police force, occasionally ended in riots due to police abuse, and in turn they were investigated by the UK government?
    No.
    Did they aid in the stopping of alot of animal torture, organized squats, organized D.A., and overall actually DID and practiced what they were singing about?
    NOT A FUCKING CHANCE.



    What the pistols did, was write/have someone write them shitty lyrics that were "offensive" and in turn got a rise out of people.

    Yea, your really fucking punk when you have a music video on MTV with P.I.L.
    Fuck John Lydon.
    Fuck Glen Matlock.
    Fuck Sid Vicious.
    Fuck the rest of the band.

    That shit is garbage pop music that is completely worthless, and people like you, are what I like to call "Romanticizing" a period you only wish to have been around in, and you are stuck in such a small bubble of lame garbage ass music, with no real substance.
    These people have done nothing to advance any kind of legit ideals/put into pracice what they preached.

    Theres alot more out there man, seriously, give it a chance, your not 12 anymore....Or maybe you are.
     
  12. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    304

    0

    7

    Oct 14, 2009
     
    Punk played it's own important role in the fight against oppression
    Aired awareness, new opinions, destroyed formerly accepted obsessions
    Right out the window went stale traditions, false morals blinded hope
    Respect for authority joined them; we made them a standing joke
    We said, "fuck off" smarmy popstar shits portraying images of a perfect world
    Smearing a happy, clean face on reality, "it's the Queens Jubilee..." go to hell
    Refusing to be puppets with the promise of a future, there is no future
    So never mind the bollocks, because anarchy in the UK suits us
    The public screamed in outcry, demanded immediate termination
    The "scum of the earth" has raised its voice "How could they do this to our nation?"
    The media tried to destroy us, stop the 'poor mans' rock invasion
    The exposure only helped us reveal their hopeless situation

    Gaining in momentum and numbers, we needed spokesmen
    And that came from four people from the real world, just like the rest of us
    We now had a voice, an alternative, our message getting louder
    Nothing now could stop us rising up to meet their fast advancing challenge
    But when the challenge came, they crumbled, as the four proved easy prey
    For the states clever weapon money proved too tempting once again
    Big bastard business cheque books opened up and then swallowed
    Those leeches sucked hard slyly, and we couldn't believe the scenes that followed

    Punk shops - " roll up! Buy your rebellion here!"
    Badges, posters, bondage, books, colouring for your hair
    Like sheep they flocked to buy punk rock, a part of the new threat!
    The country laughed and screamed "punk flop"; it now seemed punk was dead!

    They toured the lands to Disneyland
    And ripped the state apart
    Destroyed the music status quo
    And created a new start
    Their jet set pads, the sunny land
    The songs of train robbings
    It's just all more money in the bank
    So come on boys and girls and sing
    We stood and could only watch
    As they took everything we stood for
    And made a mockery of it
    The four feeding finance straight back
    Into the system they supposedly despised
    What was once the black flag of anarchy
    Was now the colours of the Union Jack


    The movement, punk rock, who cares? We are just another band; they were just another band
    Direct action is what achieves change, not miming to words,
    how much longer must we sing the same old song?
    Crawling from the mess that they'd left standing as our future
    We realised we needed 'no one' to mouth off our message for us
    Told big business to take a running jump, went back underground where we started
    The tribe then split, as some stayed behind to mourn
     
  13. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,341

    8

    156

    Oct 18, 2009
    Male , 46 years old
    Long Beach CA  United States
    Apples and Oranges. And are you conflict's PR guy or something? Don't get me wrong, i like them, but more for their music then their lyrics, because I can hardly make them out, and when i try to read along, i dont know how they actually cram so many words in to the songs, they seem to not fully pronounce a lot of words to do so... which is cool to each their own... but comparing conflict to the pistols is like comparing NWA to R. Kelly...
     
  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Or Slayer to Sonny and Cher :lmao:
     
  15. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,341

    8

    156

    Oct 18, 2009
    Male , 46 years old
    Long Beach CA  United States
    an American idol winner to someone with talent...
     
  16. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Fail, again. I never denied being a Pistols fan, and I still don't care if you find them musically appealing. My objection is to you saying you dislike them or that other people should dislike them for stupid or dishonest reasons. The stupid comment about Sid Vicious was a perfect example. You don't know anything about him. You can say you don't like the music or you don't like the style, but you aren't entitled to invent facts.

    I HAVE read "The Day the Country Died", AND "London's Burning." I'm not familiar with the Swedish punk one but that's a little obscure even for me. "Lords of Chaos" is about underground metal, a genre I happen to despise in all it's forms, with only one or two exceptions.

    This is another recurrent pattern. When faced with an argument, if you respond at all, you totally change the criteria, thus making argument impossible. The issue was not "What band from back then can you see for a lower ticket price." That was never disputed. I was saying what band OF EQUAL POPULARITY AND SIGNIFICANCE to the Sex Pistols can you see for less? I thought 45$ for good seats at the arena was perfectly acceptable. Conflict aren't even close to the Sex Pistols in terms of popularity, or historical significance. Conflict, along with Crass, etc., helped create a new offshoot of a genre, the Pistols codified a new genre. Punk started in America technically, but it was nothing until the Pistols formed. Everything, including your precious Conflict is based on it. They were the Robert Johnson's of Punk.

    This is a prime example of circular logic.

    Nonstatement.

    I would count essentially giving birth to punk rock doing something positive. But, again, you're just going off on tangents. I'm not interested in debating the merits of Conflict, that's a seperate issue.

    They WERE almost tried for treason and wiped off the Billboard charts by the British govt. Incidentally.

    The Pistols weren't Anarchists. They never honestly claimed to be Anarchists. In every interview that was made very clear from the very beginning. The Pistols were pretty true to what they were singing about, but they were not singing about what Conflict is singing about. This is absurd.

    Tha's what I'm talking about, you're making shit up, again. Nobody wrote the Pistols' material but the Pistols. All songs except for covers were written by Lydon and Matlock. You also obviously can't recognize good lyrics.

    I thought you were talking about the Sex Pistols?

    Very intelligent. Again, you display you're ignorance. The names you're searching for are Paul Cook, and Steve Jones. How can I take you're opinion of the Pistols seriously when you obviously know nothing about them?

    T
    The Sex Pistols could never be classified as pop, ESPECIALLY is the 70's.

    You don't know enough about my musical taste to make that assertion. I have a very large and diverse music collection, thanks.

    "These people"? Are we still talking about the Sex Pistols? Or Public Image? Or Sid Vicious? This is pointless.

    What would that say about you if I was? I'm around you're age, if you can be believed. Honestly I'm amazed you could survive that long.
     
  17. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    That's exactly what I'm talking about. The standard is becoming so fanatically purist it's absurd. Not to mention half the people playing punk police wouldn't recognize it if it bit them in the ass. I can think of one example...


    I completely disagree. Punk can be understood, just like existentialism, or expressionism, etc. It has a concrete definition which can be explained. Unfortunately most of the people in the punk scene have no idea what it is.
     
  18. bigpapa

    bigpapa Member New Member


    5

    0

    0

    Oct 23, 2009
     
    wow the pistols seem to be such a hot button for some people. they started punk, and everybody after them has tried to do it better,some with better luck than others. and as far as this notion that the more obscure something is the more punk rock it is, if the pistols, or misfits, or black flag or somebody else that "sold out" hadn't had some press you probably would never had heard of punk and would be listening to slipknot to piss your parents off.
     
  19. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,341

    8

    156

    Oct 18, 2009
    Male , 46 years old
    Long Beach CA  United States
    people tend to take the opinions of bands like crass and conflict as FACT instead of as OPINION in regards to other bands, like the pistols, clash, etc. It's one thing to claim you want to spread a message your own way, but avoiding the mainstream to do it essentially makes you preach to the choir. It's one thing to not want to be on a major label to not compromise your positions, but it really restricts getting your message out, especially when you are already playing a form of music that is a niche market to begin with... which is why i respect Chumbawamba, Bad Religion, etc. for making an attempt at getting their message to a larger audience. As far as if they sold out to do so, only the bands themselves will know what compromises were made, but compromise is an essential part of life, and something i hope our scene can embrace, because all this 'I'm more punk then you,' or 'i listen to real punk, you don't' nonsense is not going to help anything.
     
  20. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    The pistols started punk? :lmao:
    wow somebody better let The Ramones, and The Zero's and the half dozen other american bands that played punk before them know that.
     
Loading...