Crass: Capitalist traitors using copyright laws against Anarcho-Punk.Net - 3000 albums deleted because of these greedy selfish sellout bastards

[Anarcho4Life]

Do they owe us this bullshit? Of course they don't, of course they don't.
Do they owe us this bullshit? Of course they don't, of course they don't.
Do they owe us this bullshit? Of course they fucking don't!

We've bought the fucking records for many many years.
We put their patch and their pins on all our fucking gear.
We've showed them support by going to their shows.
And after all we've done for them, they hit an all new low.

Do they owe us this bullshit? Of course they don't, of course they don't.
Do they owe us this bullshit? Of course they don't, of course they don't.
Do they owe us this bullshit? Of course they fucking don't!
-------

That's all I could come up with in 5 mins. Give it some time and I could do more.

[Caps]

I've been away for a few days and this is what I come back to? The fucking bastards!

I have no words. They have spat in the face of everything they stood for. I'm so shocked.

[punkmar77]

Ouch..sorry Caps, it's a heart-breaker I know...

[harisx]

Greetings from Indonesia. I have spread this news to my Indonesian friends. It's very shame to hear this. Before this i am a fans of CRASS, but now my anarcho-punk heroes has become a capitalist bastard! FUCK CRASS!!!

Will spread this from my blog also www.anarchoi.com

[punkmar77]

Thank you Harisx, cheers!

[Caps]

Took a trip to London today for a run with Vegan Runners (a less than grand attendance of two). Running always gets me thinking about lyrics and I penned some on the train back.

Ignorantly Crass

Banned from The Roxy? Okay!
Can fill up bigger venues anyway.
Charging more than 30 pound for tickets,
While singing songs about how Capitalism's wicked,
Singing how they never set out to profit from another,
Gave punk an ethic, was it just a fucking cover?
Now they pursue copyright for a couple extra quid,
How many more punks do they want to fucking bleed?

Ever felt cheated? Ever felt fucking had?
Profit not politics for this working-class lad.

Pissing on a legacy,
Pissing on the fans,
The paradox is caused -
By greed you understand.

They ain't got a lot, that's what they want you to think,
Read between the lines you'll see the politics stink,
Try to keep the prices down on the music they produce,
Only to hike them decades later on the rockstar reissues,
And you see the problem with this crass betrayal,
Is it seems to imply our dreams are deemed to fail,
But there's still a fucking scene and there's still a belief,
It just needs to rid itself of a fucking thief.

How could it ever have got so bad?
Profit not politics for this working-class lad.

Pissing on a legacy,
Pissing on the fans,
The paradox is caused -
By greed you understand.

I'll never forget the message they said,
About no Gods, no masters and never being led,
So fucking sell out, it makes no difference in my head,
Now I know to you that punk is really dead.

And you're dead to punk too.

[punkmar77]

^Sharing!^

[Ammon]

i have told every punk i know, iv put this on facebook( on crass and steves wall ). we must tell everyone CRASS ARE FULL OF SHIT

[snowflake]

i'm wondering how many of you people ,accept money for the jobs you do or accept money for art you make or claim benefits off the state , selling art is how artists survive . i enjoy listening to crass and i bought their records .

[ungovernable]

i'm wondering how many of you people ,accept money for the jobs you do or accept money for art you make or claim benefits off the state , selling art is how artists survive . i enjoy listening to crass and i bought their records .

1) Anarchism is not a job, get a real job and stop trying to live out of your rebellion.

2) You can accept money in a reasonnable ammount, but when you are just destroying others by making money, you're no better than a capitalist multinational. Crass is the anarcho-punk band who's selling the most albums in the world, they don't need to act like this to keep making money

3) Crass CHOSEN to not make any money out of their sales, they conntinuously brag about how they gave away their albums and sold others at production cost. We didn't told them how to think, they chosen to be this way and then betrayed their ideals.

4) The debate here is not wether or not a band has the right to make money out of their art, the debate is about Crass using copyrights laws they pretend to be fighting against while they could have just contacted us, resulting in over 3000 albums deleted and a lot of problems for us.

5) Making tens of thousands of dollars is not what i would call "surviving". Selling albums nearly the production cost IS surviving, but selling albums at 10x the price they used to be with the notice "pay no more than $3" is NOT surviving, especially when the production price of those albums has been paid over 30 years ago. Additionally, everyone knows that file sharing isn't going to prevent bands from surviving. File sharing will exist with or without APN, so better have anarcho-punk's own non-profit file-sharing platform rather than letting capitalists benefit of file sharing that will exist even without us.

[phcumbria]

crass have not existed for nearly thirty years, so its misleading to say its crass. half the band are not involved in the reissues. ba nanna does not get roylities anymore. some members opposed the reissues and the last supper gigs. yes steve ignorant owns the right to the t shirt designs, he has admitted this and thats his bussiness. did you seek permision off the former members or southern? so why should they ask you to remove their own music!! i aint got a problem with downloading, but crass or former members chose to remove their files. anarcho punk net deal with capitalist mutinatinal banks check out the donate page. and to say we have no choice is a cop out. my god this takes me back thirty years, pulling strips off each other. together we can win , not fucking likely. is it the end of the world if you cant download crass? you have a choice share the files via your friends or do without!! did crass set out giving their product away no?

[butcher]

http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=31657

[snowflake]

I think the days of making tens of thousands out of selling records is long gone if you think southern records are making that kind of money you are dreaming . crass are destroying people's lives to make money , c'mon really?? Any way Anarcho punk ?? What the hell is that anyway ? A label ? Sounds like a contradiction to me? Anarchy means no labels no rules ? Right? You live by more rules than anyone else , you can't do this you can't say that ,you cant you cant you cant!!!Who desides how much a band can make from an lp ..you ? music snobbery this is..I'm more punk than you !! I'm more punk than you!! I've heard it all before , it was boring them and it still is now .

[Caps]

I really do not what your point is, Snowflake. Do you really not see the inconsistency and shittiness of this situation?

I think the days of making tens of thousands out of selling records is long gone if you think southern records are making that kind of money you are dreaming .

Couple of points. The whole set up of those reissues was pretty bogus in the first place. It resulted in horrific conflicts between original members. Even then it looked like the original principles of CRASS were being dismantled for the sake of profit. This seems to be driving the current actions as well. However much they expect to make, they obviously expect it all. Second, if they're not making a heap of money (and considering the prices...). Then what's the issue? It's that their not getting paid for their product. That is not what CRASS have ever been about.

crass are destroying people's lives to make money , c'mon really??

Southern (at least) have done two things that are highly negative: 1) they have caused a shitload of problems with the downloads on this site all of which were removed upon request. No one requested. They went straight to mediafire and fucked this site over. 2) By enforcing copyright to protect their product, they have eroded a lot of their integrity. 'They can't buy my dignity'. Oh, yeah? It's pisses on the scene they helped created. However, very punk you might think. Which brings us to:

Any way Anarcho punk ?? What the hell is that anyway ? A label ? Sounds like a contradiction to me? Anarchy means no labels no rules ? Right?

It doesn't mean no label, no rules. First, that is closer to nihilism. Second, a label that means no label is inevitably a contradiction. Anarchism and anarcho-punk is about cooperation. These actions fucked that.

You live by more rules than anyone else , you can't do this you can't say that ,you cant you cant you cant!!!Who desides how much a band can make from an lp ..you ? music snobbery this is..I'm more punk than you !! I'm more punk than you!! I've heard it all before , it was boring them and it still is now .

No one is really talking about being more punk than anyone else. We are talking about betrayed, fucked over. We are talking about people being hypocrites.

[ungovernable]

I think the days of making tens of thousands out of selling records is long gone if you think southern records are making that kind of money you are dreaming

You must be really naive to think they didn't make money selling their overpriced remastered albums.

Crass has been selling albums since 30 years but they didn't make any money out of it ? Right... Stop talking to us like if we are idiots.

crass are destroying people's lives to make money , c'mon really?? Any way Anarcho punk ??

I didn't talk about lives, i said they are destroying others to make their money. They almost killed this website just to make more money.

Anarchy means no labels no rules ? Right?

Nobody said that. We said anarchy means no copyright no capitalism no DMCA.

You live by more rules than anyone else , you can't do this you can't say that ,you cant you cant you cant!!!

Stupid arguments. Anarchism has principles. Or do you think that Bill Gates could be an anarchist ? Else it would be a rule ? Oh noes !

You live by more rules than anyone else , you can't do this you can't say that ,you cant you cant you cant!!!Who desides how much a band can make from an lp ..you ? music snobbery this is..I'm more punk than you !! I'm more punk than you!! I've heard it all before , it was boring them and it still is now .

We're not talking about being more punk than others, just staying true to your ideals. We didn't told crass to "do this do that" they CHOSEN to STAND FOR ANTICAPITALISM, freedom of speech, to be against laws, etc... Today they betrayed everything they stood for. Doesn't have anything to do with rules or whatever, it's what they CHOSEN to be that they have now betrayed.

Your arguments are bullshit. Just get the fuck out, crass fanboy.

[THEBLACKNOVA]

I think the anarch@ part trumps the punk part here with this band, or anarchist collective? How did they see themselves when they were around? As a punk band? A anarchist collective that made noise? or what? I too bought CRASS records, but i never bought or made myself, or stole, any crass patches or t-shirts, i liked and respected what they were saying, their ideas, they were like anarchist pamphlets in songs and noise...

I think the days of making tens of thousands out of selling records is long gone if you think southern records are making that kind of money you are dreaming

YES YES - we can all copy and paste - anything that can be digitized, will be digitized, and uploaded for the world to have, the makers of these digitized "products" need to figure news ways of making money off any product they make that can be digitized and shared all over the world, if that is there reason for making such "products"

I liked and was trilled when i found out books were being digitized and shared as pdf files, a new world of ideas and thought was available to me and the world, those ideas were no longer out of reach cuz i did not have money to buy that book....

I guess the question I have is what comes first? Your ideas? Or a bottom line with Euros???

They can and will probably still maker money with their "product" i.e. the catalog of records they created, but so too would Emma Goldman if she was alive today, make money off the the "product" she created i.e. her books, but would Emma Goldman have her attorney (or whoever) go after you for creating and distributing her product i.e. digitized books in pdf format for free to the world? would she be more interested in knowing that people are reading and thinking about what she created? or in maximizing the profits that could be made with the "product" or ideas she created?

i think CRASS has answered that question

[punkmar77]

crass have not existed for nearly thirty years, so its misleading to say its crass. half the band are not involved in the reissues. ba nanna does not get roylities anymore. some members opposed the reissues and the last supper gigs. yes steve ignorant owns the right to the t shirt designs, he has admitted this and thats his bussiness. did you seek permision off the former members or southern? so why should they ask you to remove their own music!! i aint got a problem with downloading, but crass or former members chose to remove their files. anarcho punk net deal with capitalist mutinatinal banks check out the donate page. and to say we have no choice is a cop out. my god this takes me back thirty years, pulling strips off each other. together we can win , not fucking likely. is it the end of the world if you cant download crass? you have a choice share the files via your friends or do without!! did crass set out giving their product away no?

You missed the point entirely, are you really that dense or just pretending, we know all about Pete Wright and the other half of the band, they are Crass members no more according to court rulings, this doesn't excuse the rest of the bands corporate actions, hiding behind copyright laws when also publicly stating they are against anti-piracy laws...bottom line they had many many downloads removed through the capitalist states coercion, many friends to this websites albums were deleted because of the idiots they have administering their affairs...whether it's Steve, Penny, Gee or Allison from Southern it doesn't fucking matter, all they had to do was ask to be removed and it would have happened, we don't want peoples music that don't agree with the anarchist principles we have founded this website upon, period. We gladly will delete bands music that are against any of this forums charter...just don't come at us with the law to back you up because as anarchists we don't recognize intellectual property laws...nobody gives a fuck about losing Crass downloads, what we care about are the thousands of other bands that were truly happy to have their music hosted here and over the years have become members of the forum, when the APN benefit compilation is finally released you will be amazed at the bands that have contributed...a la chingada con Crass los capitalistas modernos, vendidos al sistema, hypocritas

[ungovernable]

crass have not existed for nearly thirty years, so its misleading to say its crass. half the band are not involved in the reissues. ba nanna does not get roylities anymore. some members opposed the reissues and the last supper gigs. yes steve ignorant owns the right to the t shirt designs, he has admitted this and thats his bussiness. did you seek permision off the former members or southern? so why should they ask you to remove their own music!! i aint got a problem with downloading, but crass or former members chose to remove their files. anarcho punk net deal with capitalist mutinatinal banks check out the donate page. and to say we have no choice is a cop out. my god this takes me back thirty years, pulling strips off each other. together we can win , not fucking likely. is it the end of the world if you cant download crass? you have a choice share the files via your friends or do without!! did crass set out giving their product away no?

Oh i missed that

- Crass is dead since 30 years but they're still selling albums since 30 years. And if the other members are not happy with Southern using copyright laws in their name, they just have to take a stand against it.

- No we didn't ask permission because Crass is supposed to be anti-capitalist and they keep saying they don't want to make profit our of their sales but only sell albums to get back the production costs. I don't see how file sharing would prevent them from getting back their investement in production costs. Anyway, file sharing will happen with or without us, and Crass can't do anything against it. They should attack people making profit out of file sharing instead..

- I will return your questions : does Crass and Southern have other member's permission to use copyright laws against anarchist websites in their name ? Did they ask for their permission before sending DMCA ? Did they ask for their permission before opposing to file sharing ?

- Once again the debate is not about their right to remove their album, the debate is around the fact that they chose to use copyright laws instead to just talk with us

- Your argument about credit card is just pathetic. We are forced to use Paypal, who indeed supports credit card payment. Crass are NOT forced to use copyright laws to deal with us.

- It's not the end of the world if we can't download crass, you're right. Everybody can easily download it on millions of other websites. What's wrong is that over 3000 albums are not offline because of those assholes, and the vast majority of them agreed with file sharing.

- Yes, Crass used to give out their albums for free (which they paid money to produce, but they were still giving them for free). Tens of thousands of them. Read their biography. They said they did it because they wanted to bring their message to the largest possible audience, even if they lost money doing it. Well, that's exactly what Anarcho-Punk.net was doing before those hypocrite traitor bastards chosen to turn their vest.
If file sharing existed in 1980, crass would have used it, for sure.

[ungovernable]

I hope nobody ever made their own Crass patches. It would be stealing other's hard work. LOL. And if they sue you about using their copyrighted logo, then it's your fault, you just had to ask their permission. Also there's nothing wrong about anarchists sueing you instead of just talking with you and asking you to remove it. After all, why wouldn't anarchist use the capitalist system they're fighting against ?

©ra$s™

[punkmar77]

©ra$s™

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