Photos I've taken outside an abortion clinic

[Nigel]

no offence, but that article is stupid.
Crime is caused by Capitalism not overpopulation.

The article has nothing to do with overpopulation.

[mymarkx]

The cattle shouldnt be in the rainforest in the first place. people dont need to eat meet with the vast amount of vegatables, fruit, nuts, and starches.

Right, Ben.

And then there were the buffalo. The colonialists didn't kill them for food or even for sport, but because they were a mainstay of Native Americans and the colonialists, intent on genocide, thought it important to eliminate anything that enabled Native Americans to survive. The numbers of buffalo were so great in North America that they could have sustained more carnivores than even factory farming. It's all about capitalist imperialism, otherwise known as fascism.

[Canis latrans]

Well what the hell are we going the do about the population? KILL THEM ALL! THATS INSANE!

Why would you have to kill people? What a silly thing to say.

When people are educated and have enough food/shelter/amenities, they have fewer children. This is a well-known effect of having a higher quality of life. Therefore the answer would seem to lie in forming healthier societies where resources are distributed more equally. When wealth is distributed more equally and education is accessible to everyone, the population will begin to decline and eventually stabilize, resulting in an even higher quality of life.

I am not certain that ben is trolling. No one at any time said to kill off people. Unless he equates negative population growth with genocide. If he does then he needs to pay attention with what is actually being said.

I say, there are too many people. He says, the world can support infinite amounts and that I support eugenics.
I say, contraceptives and abortion reduce the amount of children being born. He says, I want to kill everyone.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[mymarkx]

Women who have abortions
are those most at risk to give birth to children who would engage
in criminal activity. Teenagers, unmarried women, and the economically
disadvantaged are all substantially more likely to seek
abortions [Levine et al. 1996]. Recent studies have found children
born to these mothers to be at higher risk for committing crime in
adolescence

Strange that "women who have abortions are those most at risk to give birth....." whether to criminals sor noncriminals. Women who have abortions aren't at risk to give birth at all.

The article seems to consider abortion a crime, and to attribute all crimes to abortion instead of to capitalist-caused poverty. It admits that poverty is one of the factors in both crimes and abortion, but the "scientists" seem to think that it is more humane to watch millions of children starve to death or go to prison for expropriating basic survival needs, than to allow women who can't afford to feed them, not to have to bear them. Saying "Teenagers, unmarried women, and the economically disadvantaged," is redundant, as both teenagers and women are deliberately economically disadvantaged by capitalism.


Science: The business of taking things out of context so as to misunderstand them better.

[Bentheanarchist]

Well what the hell are we going the do about the population? KILL THEM ALL! THATS INSANE!

Why would you have to kill people? What a silly thing to say.

When people are educated and have enough food/shelter/amenities, they have fewer children. This is a well-known effect of having a higher quality of life. Therefore the answer would seem to lie in forming healthier societies where resources are distributed more equally. When wealth is distributed more equally and education is accessible to everyone, the population will begin to decline and eventually stabilize, resulting in an even higher quality of life.

I am not certain that ben is trolling. No one at any time said to kill off people. Unless he equates negative population growth with genocide. If he does then he needs to pay attention with what is actually being said.

I say, there are too many people. He says, the world can support infinite amounts and that I support eugenics.
I say, contraceptives and abortion reduce the amount of children being born. He says, I want to kill everyone.

Obvious troll is obvious.

I wasnt trying to come out as a troll.

[Canis latrans]

Then maybe you shouldn't claim that someone is in support of eugenics when they say the world is over populated, and then contraception is a good idea. You also shouldn't jump to conclusions, use hyperbole, or ignore points that have already been made. Considering that I already addressed the "kill them all" attack leveled at me by stating that widerspread use of contraceptives with the proper education in their uses would help with reducing population growth (negative population growth). You also shouldn't dismiss evidence brought your attention simply because it does not fit in with your reality filter (anarchism). Blaming all the evils on the world on capitalism will make you blind to other causes.

[punkmar77]

The thing is folks, things are never as black and white as any one single argument pro or con...to say that criminality is only attributable to capitalism is unbelievably narrow sighted, to say that we have an infinite amount of space and resources is human egocentricity at it's finest, to say abortion is murder is imposing your definition of murder on others... all extreme variances of grey shades...

[punkmar77]

You also shouldn't dismiss evidence brought your attention simply because it does not fit in with your reality filter (anarchism)

Please don't attribute whatever shortsightedness Ben is having to anarchism...

[Bentheanarchist]

Ya, eventually resources will run out on this world. I am pro-choice and support the birth control movement. I dont believe abortion or birth control is murder.

[Bentheanarchist]

I never meant the kill them all thing towards you, canis. I was asking how to lower the population today.

[mymarkx]

You also shouldn't dismiss evidence brought your attention simply because it does not fit in with your reality filter (anarchism)

Please don't attribute whatever shortsightedness Ben is having to anarchism...

Wait! Anarchism is the "reality filter" for the whole freaking forum.

The way I read it, that statement wasn't attributing what Ben posted to anarchism, it was dissing anarchism as being just some shortsightedness of Ben's.

[Canis latrans]

You also shouldn't dismiss evidence brought your attention simply because it does not fit in with your reality filter (anarchism)

Please don't attribute whatever shortsightedness Ben is having to anarchism...

I wasn't saying all anarchists think that way, but that Ben's view of anarchism seemed to be influencing his views of the subjects being brought up in a manner not conductive of a rational discussion.

[Bentheanarchist]

Im starting to get what you say. My view of anarchism is not affecting this disscusion.

[Nigel]

Women who have abortions
are those most at risk to give birth to children who would engage
in criminal activity. Teenagers, unmarried women, and the economically
disadvantaged are all substantially more likely to seek
abortions [Levine et al. 1996]. Recent studies have found children
born to these mothers to be at higher risk for committing crime in
adolescence

Strange that "women who have abortions are those most at risk to give birth....." whether to criminals sor noncriminals. Women who have abortions aren't at risk to give birth at all.

The article seems to consider abortion a crime, and to attribute all crimes to abortion instead of to capitalist-caused poverty. It admits that poverty is one of the factors in both crimes and abortion, but the "scientists" seem to think that it is more humane to watch millions of children starve to death or go to prison for expropriating basic survival needs, than to allow women who can't afford to feed them, not to have to bear them. Saying "Teenagers, unmarried women, and the economically disadvantaged," is redundant, as both teenagers and women are deliberately economically disadvantaged by capitalism.


Science: The business of taking things out of context so as to misunderstand them better.

I am confused as to whether your post is satire, and your last sentence is a description of what you're doing in your post, or whether your post is serious.

The decrease in crime in the US is directly correlated to legalized abortion, and the reason is because more disadvantaged mothers have the option of aborting unwanted fetuses, rather than giving birth to unwanted children who would then grow up in an environment that is strongly correlated with turning out street criminals. Not to be mistaken for the criminals who do the most damage, white-collar criminals, but I don't think legalized abortion has much of an impact on white-collar crime because wealthy women have always been able to obtain abortions.

[Nigel]

I never meant the kill them all thing towards you, canis. I was asking how to lower the population today.

You can't lower it "today". Population decrease is a process, and it takes generations.

[Nigel]

You also shouldn't dismiss evidence brought your attention simply because it does not fit in with your reality filter (anarchism)

Please don't attribute whatever shortsightedness Ben is having to anarchism...

Wait! Anarchism is the "reality filter" for the whole freaking forum.

The way I read it, that statement wasn't attributing what Ben posted to anarchism, it was dissing anarchism as being just some shortsightedness of Ben's.

I don't think you are using "reality filter" the same way Coyote is using it.

[Canis latrans]

Im starting to get what you say. My view of anarchism is not affecting this disscusion.

It seemed like it had.

[Bentheanarchist]

I said those things because don't know much about them because they have never interested me but now that we have this discussion it does.

[Nigel]

The thing is folks, things are never as black and white as any one single argument pro or con...to say that criminality is only attributable to capitalism is unbelievably narrow sighted, to say that we have an infinite amount of space and resources is human egocentricity at it's finest, to say abortion is murder is imposing your definition of murder on others... all extreme variances of grey shades...

Well said.

[Ivanovich]

Pretty sure the planet can't support an infinite population. The entire universe can't support an infinite population. Ok, some people might debate the latter, if the universe if infinite, etc... Reducing crime by killing those that are likely to commit it, well, that's really cute. Note, I said killing, not murder, since I wouldn't want to impose my definitions on others. Eugenics, you already got it. The wealthy breed, the poor kill their own offspring. Survival of the richest, and the freedom to become extinct. Hating women, right, let's just forget that about half of those killed are female. But they don't count, cos they are small, unwanted, out of sight, of no use, a burden, subhuman, parasitic, vermin. You best make sure they are not people, I mean, like, really sure, cos if not, you are advocating the greatest crime against humanity, ever. I seen my fair share of death during my time, and I can tell you for sure - Alive, dead - there is no grey area. That's what you talking about, if it's ok to kill. When it's ok to kill. What is ok to kill. Well, I thought about that for some time, and still the only answer I get is self defence, and I not even certain about that.