Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs?

[punkmar77]

[Mike Generic]

My answer to the question "Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs?" is yes and no, within reason. A few examples: I enjoy Conflict, and I agree with the message in the vast majority of songs, but I don't agree with the song "The Cord Is Cut" (http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/conflict/ ... iscut.html), a clear pro-life (I personally prefer the term "anti-choice") song. Also, I enjoy some straight-edge bands like Minor Threat or Champion, even though I'm not straight-edge any more, but I can't stand bands like Earth Crisis or other "hardline straight-edge" bands. Bands like Conflict and Minor Threat held their ideals, but did not attempt to force their message down the throats of their listeners, which Conflict would not do as part of their anarchist principles, and Minor Threat would not do because they were simply trying to create a positive alternative to a culture and lifestyle they (well, more specifically, Ian MacKaye) saw as destructive.

The primary goal of these bands and countless others, aside from writing music that was pleasing to listen to, was to spread a positive philosophy. This, I can support.

However, when I hear a band like Skrewdriver, No Remorse, RaHoWa or any of those scumfuck neo-nazi/fascist/racist/white power bands, I cannot see one positive message in their lyrics, and I will actively oppose the spread of their hate message.

Like Ungov said, neo-nazi music is propaganda!
Back in 2004, a neo-nazi record label called Panzerfaust Records began what they called "Project Schoolyard", which involved handing our Neo-Nazi/White Power compilation CDs at high-schools with the intent of spreading Neo-Nazi/WP messages. When you are listening to Nazi music, you are participating in the spread of the ideology. Even if you don't support the band/artist financially (by buying the album), the means to which you access the music still supports them. When you watch a Skrewdriver video on Youtube, that's one more hit on the video. When you listen to WP bands on sites like Myspace, Bandcamp or Last.FM, that's one more hit towards those artists, and websites like that rank songs or bands based on the number of views or listens they have.

Even if you can ignore this fact, think of the impact that listening to shit like RaHoWa is having on you!
When I was in highschool, one of my friends was the singer for a really top-notch hardcore punk band. He was very anti-state/fascist/racist, essentially anarchist, but afraid to label himself. In the last year of school, he began listening to Skrewdriver, because he thought "it was funny". After highschool, I lost contact with him, but through the "miracle" of Facebook, somehow tracked him down, only to find that he had since joined he military, and was a member of groups such as "Rock Against Communism", "Proud To Be White" and "If You're Not Going To Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand In Front Of Them".
Not to say that simply listening to Skrewdriver made him into a conservative, racist nationalist, but I do believe that it was a factor.

Sorry for the longish rant, those are just my ideas.

[DirtyRottenThrashPunk]

Project schoolyard is fucking disgusting...makes me wanna set some Nazi scum on fire

And that's really awful about that past friend of yours...just sad.

[ungovernable]

wow i didnt know conflict had an anti-choice song...

Concerning Project Schoolyard, there is an antifascist response called "project boneyard"

http://www.insurgence.net/releaseinfo_irSv2.htm

[KAAOS-82]

Does he fund a sect of horse-sucking persons with the money he gets from the fame of his band ?

Probably, you'd know more about that than me

I don't take your arguments into account because you regurgitate the same thing. We all know Nazi music is bad otherwise we wouldn't be on this forum. And to clear the air, Varg no longer has anything to do with white power activities. He was in prison for the duration of his flirtation White supremacy and his lyrics have nothing to do with National Socialism, hes never even referred to himself as such. Doesn't it register that you cant be an activist if your in prision, hence denoting the word: ACTIVE

[ungovernable]

he's still a fucking white power, he's still using the money from Burzum to sell racist books, and dont bring me up the shitty argument that he hasn't referred himself as a nazi he IS a fucking nazi, he's just playing on words like a shitload of racists are doing... For example he says he is a racialist instead of saying he's racist because it is more politically correct but it's the same fucking shit.

Look he's using the name of burzum to sell his shitty racist nazi books and other propaganda, and YOU are encouraging this bullshit
http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/

As long as he will still be selling this propaganda i will consider him as active. You don't have to be part of a neo nazi group and beat up jews to be an active racist. He won't be active anymore when he will change his ideas and stop selling propaganda like that:


By the way that's a nice rune all over the webpage, i think i seen it at anothere place before, oh yeah right i remember....


But of course Vaarg is probably just a fan of old runes and mythology, just a coincidence, yeah right..

You're so stupid kaaos. You may know that nazis are bad but you're still defending and encouraging this bullshit. I regurgitate the same arguments because you fail to understand it and you repeat the same excuses over and over again to defend your obvious contradictions

EVERYONE know that varg is a fucking neo-nazi fan of national socialism, it is public notoriety. Are you going to believe a stupid asshole who deny all accusations because he can't assume or what all proofs are pointing at ? The national front is denying they are white supremacist, does that means we should have to believe their word ?

[ungovernable]

He was in prison for the duration of his flirtation White supremacy and his lyrics have nothing to do with National Socialism, hes never even referred to himself as such

According to Goodrick-Clarke, "while in jail, Vikernes began to formulate his nationalist heathen ideology using material from Norse mythology combined with racism and occult National Socialism."[1] Goodrick-Clarke bases this account of Vikernes' beliefs on some articles that Vikernes had written for the short-lived "neo-Nazi magazine" Filosofem, published by Vidar von Herske. Goodrick-Clarke also uses the book Lords of Chaos, and a manifesto called Vargsmål ('Speech of the Wolf'), which Vikernes began to write after his imprisonment. Although some publishers were initially interested in Vargsmål due to Vikernes' presence in the Norwegian media, they turned the book down as soon as they had the opportunity to read it, as its contents were considered too extreme.[citation needed] According to Lords of Chaos, Vargsmål became available on the internet for some time in 1996, but not in a printed form.[37] In 1997 a Norwegian publisher released a paperback edition of the book; its publication was financed by Vikernes' mother, Lene Bore.[38] Vikernes has denounced the English translation of his book in an article on his website. He has also stated on the website that "Vargsmål was written in anger, while I was young and in isolation, and the book is marked by this".[39]
[edit] Political affiliation

After his conviction, Vikernes began identifying himself as a neo-Nazi.[10] The Encyclopedia of White Power describes him as "busy promoting his Odinist and National Socialist philosophy from behind bars."[16]

In a July 2005 statement on his website, titled "The Nazi Ghost",[40] Vikernes states that although he "occasionally used the term 'nazism' to describe [his] ideological foundation", he no longer describes himself as a 'Nazi'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varg_Viker ... _in_prison

Doesn't it register that you cant be an activist if your in prision, hence denoting the word: ACTIVE

Involvement in the Heathen Front

According to several sources[who?], during his time in prison, Vikernes became a central figure in the Neo-völkisch Heathen Front. The Heathen Front started as a group in Norway, Norsk Hedensk Front (Norwegian Heathen Front), and grew into the international Allgermanische Heidnische Front (Pan-Germanic Heathen Front). At the time of their publication, the article on Vikernes in the Encyclopedia of White Power[45] and Gods of the Blood by the Swedish scholar Matthias Gardell[46] considered Vikernes to be the leader (and the founder) of the Norwegian Heathen Front. Goodrick-Clarke mentions that Vikernes underlined "his role as chieftain of his Norwegian Heathen Front" with the writing of Vargsmål.[47]

In a 2009 interview with Vikernes, the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet pointed out that he has been linked to neo-Nazi and racist groups during his time in prison.[28]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varg_Vikernes

Inform yourself before defending a nazi asshole.

[ungovernable]

At the arrest of Vikernes, the police found 150 kg of explosives and 3,000 rounds of ammunition in Vikernes' home.[28] According to Encyclopedia of White Power Vikernes has stated that these explosives were "intended to blow up Blitz House, the radical leftist and anarchist enclave in Oslo",[16] a plan which "was reportedly on the verge of execution"[16] and only prevented by Vikernes' arrest. In an article originally published in 1999, Kevin Coogan points to Vikernes' planned attack in the Blitz House as a possible motive for the murder of Aarseth. Referring to the passages of Lords of Chaos quoted above, Coogan writes: "LOC offers strong evidence that Vikernes, who came from a divorced family and was raised by his mother Lene Bore, was a fascist well before he became a metalhead." Then he, too, mentions Vikernes' intent to "destroy an Oslo-based punk anti-fascist squat called Blitz House",[10] and concludes: "Vikernes may have felt that he had no choice but to kill Euronymous before bombing Blitz House because 'the Communist' would almost certainly have opposed such an act".[10]


Thank you for defending, encouraging and promoting the nazi assholes who want to kill our anarchist comrades, fucking idiot. Oh but right, we should continue to listen to his shitty music, as long as it doesn't includes racist lyrics who cares if we will help him to buy bombs to kill our comrades and publish white power litterature.

[Caps]

getting back to the issue at hand which is: "Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs." music should by no means be a manifesto on how to live your life, its a form of expression by a particular artist. You may agree with it in some instances and hell it might relate to your life a lot which I'm sure it will if your a punk. But there is plenty of music genres and artists out there that have stigmas attached to it based on the artists personal beliefs or lifestyle choices but that doesn't mean that the music itself cant be appreciated for its value.

I think in essence I agree with this. I mean, I listen to Slayer and their lyrics are pretty worthless to me and their open Repbulicans. Your musical listening is going to be seriously limited if you ONLY listen to anarchist bands. I don't think I have a major problem with people listening to music made a fascist fuckwits but it's not for me.

The singer of Soft Cell sucks off horses, that doesnt mean the cover of Tainted Love is a bad song.

I don't care if this is was an improvised bit of bullshit, this will forever be true to me.

However, I can't seem to find proof that Milano is jewish and I have read some anti-semitic comments by the man. This question was posed to him (I believe his retort is a 'joke'):

For the past 20 years you have relied heavily on Jewish musicians to make a semi-decent living, yet you are an anti-Semite. How do you reconcile these two facts?
I converted to being a Jew in the 80’s. I like bagels and have an accountant name Murray, Oi vey such a thing. My Jewish friends only know me by my Jewish identity. “ Sol mehaya Lowenhidlebaum” His name is my name too. Or wait that’s “John Jacob Jinggleheimer Schmit”.

http://www.themetalinquisition.com/2009 ... fully.html

[lil'apple]

i don't think "the cord is cut" is a pro-life song, and yes, english isn't my first language, but to me the song is like a inter-view about how it is to feel shortly before or after an abortion. i had to make the choice nearly three years ago, i hadn't the time to think about everything because i was already near the 12 weeks limit - i was underweight and my menstruation was never "strong", so i didn't notice that i was pregnant and i could not believe it first when they told me in a hospital that i was "in good hope" for sure.
i never wanted to have children, not in this world without the freedom to raise them as free human beings.
and because of the chaos that broke out after the diagnosis, with of lack of time, bad feelings about being that stupid, self-reproaches and fear, i never made any decision and only crossed the limit, thats why my daughters live and grow up today, i don't regret it and i'm more than happy to live with them. maybe i have to tell them one day how lucky they were then, already alive in a mother that would never have beared them out of intent, too stupid to be consequent in birth control and too confused to make the choice.
i will never forget the situation i was in - all alone, crying all the time i was awake - because i had to make the choice and nobody else. even the people including their father who were trying to support and calm me down counted nothing in this time my cord was cut - the cord to him and everybody else - i had to choose and i felt so fucking alone while the whole world waited for the decisicion only i had to make.
i think the song is about this lone end-of-the-world drama with no way out because both opportunities are wrong, maybe conflict should have left "the decision" open and put some more emphasis on how it is to think against the clock and the calendar while time is already running out and the whole world is waiting for "you".
the most important line is: "My decision so hard, you think I made with ease" - that's why i like this song - and again: i don't think it's "only" pro life... it's about a human all alone at the end of the world.

[gobbledigooks]

Bit inept after my favorite lil's view on conflicts wisdom and insight - I agree with this view about "The Cord Is Cut" - but I think I've to say a bit about my old statement "it's okay as long as I do it for myself only":

When I wrote the statement on the 4skins topic I was convinced that it was right, even if I had to bleed for this attitude before when I lived in England and attended a screwdriver gig, I left the gig on a stretcher...
Few months ago I came home late from the tube, and ran into a bunch of the local boneheads hanging round with a ghetto blaster - guess what was playing?
I got away with a few kicks, the bones ran off after some other people came by and intervened - otherwise the bones would have beaten the shit out of me - again to the sound of white...
Yes, I've learned my lesson this time and I threw away the whole collection of nutzi shit I was keeping for myself only, I didn't ask my mates to revenge me, somehow we did it and I still feel ashamed that nobody said something like: "See... we always knew it before, stupid" - I think I would have deserved it.
The bones will give a shit about free speech and their victims musical taste - they'll hurt and maybe kill you just for fun or boredom. Burzum is a grey zone case, like the 4skins before they turned openly patriotic - but the band accepts vargarse's madness or at least tolerated it untill today - that's the reason why I don't want to listen to them, no matter how good they are in musical matters - and vargearse is just intolerable only, fuck him.

[JackNegativity]

At the arrest of Vikernes, the police found 150 kg of explosives and 3,000 rounds of ammunition in Vikernes' home.[28] According to Encyclopedia of White Power Vikernes has stated that these explosives were "intended to blow up Blitz House, the radical leftist and anarchist enclave in Oslo",[16] a plan which "was reportedly on the verge of execution"[16] and only prevented by Vikernes' arrest. In an article originally published in 1999, Kevin Coogan points to Vikernes' planned attack in the Blitz House as a possible motive for the murder of Aarseth. Referring to the passages of Lords of Chaos quoted above, Coogan writes: "LOC offers strong evidence that Vikernes, who came from a divorced family and was raised by his mother Lene Bore, was a fascist well before he became a metalhead." Then he, too, mentions Vikernes' intent to "destroy an Oslo-based punk anti-fascist squat called Blitz House",[10] and concludes: "Vikernes may have felt that he had no choice but to kill Euronymous before bombing Blitz House because 'the Communist' would almost certainly have opposed such an act".[10]

I can't believe I actually didn't know this! Kinda trumps any arguments I've ever had about Burzum.

[DirtyRottenThrashPunk]

At the arrest of Vikernes, the police found 150 kg of explosives and 3,000 rounds of ammunition in Vikernes' home.[28] According to Encyclopedia of White Power Vikernes has stated that these explosives were "intended to blow up Blitz House, the radical leftist and anarchist enclave in Oslo",[16] a plan which "was reportedly on the verge of execution"[16] and only prevented by Vikernes' arrest. In an article originally published in 1999, Kevin Coogan points to Vikernes' planned attack in the Blitz House as a possible motive for the murder of Aarseth. Referring to the passages of Lords of Chaos quoted above, Coogan writes: "LOC offers strong evidence that Vikernes, who came from a divorced family and was raised by his mother Lene Bore, was a fascist well before he became a metalhead." Then he, too, mentions Vikernes' intent to "destroy an Oslo-based punk anti-fascist squat called Blitz House",[10] and concludes: "Vikernes may have felt that he had no choice but to kill Euronymous before bombing Blitz House because 'the Communist' would almost certainly have opposed such an act".[10]

I can't believe I actually didn't know this! Kinda trumps any arguments I've ever had about Burzum.

That story was why I deleted the Burzum albums that were on my computer.

[Mike Generic]

Concerning Project Schoolyard, there is an antifascist response called "project boneyard"

http://www.insurgence.net/releaseinfo_irSv2.htm

Ah, forgot to mention that, thanks.

[punkmar77]

Kaaos ...... check and mate!

[trevor9849]

Okay you guys are right about leftist people listening to white power music, it's dumb. But what about SOD? Their bass player is now in Brutal Truth, a left wind grindcore band. So that kinda proves they were a joke band. Scott Ian from Anthrax was in SOD too and I heard somewhere that Anthrax had an antiracist song.

[JackNegativity]

The fact that the bass player left for Brutal Truth should say something. Not sure about the Anthrax(U$) "antiracist" song (it might exist, not really into them), but they did cover "Protest and Survive" by Discharge.

As for Billy Milano, Napalm Death summed it up best : "Billy Milano is a fat fucking nazi."

[ungovernable]

Okay you guys are right about leftist people listening to white power music, it's dumb. But what about SOD? Their bass player is now in Brutal Truth, a left wind grindcore band. So that kinda proves they were a joke band. Scott Ian from Anthrax was in SOD too and I heard somewhere that Anthrax had an antiracist song.

SOD is just "humor" they're not really racist.... a friend of mine have a band of metalheads covering SOD, the name of his band is "fuck the middle east" -__- .... but he made a lot of searches on SOD and they're not racist

[dwtcos]

but drudkh is such a good band...

[DZA]

I guess it depends really, you shouldn't support bands with shit messages. But as long as you're not paying for their albums or going to see them live I reckon it's okay. I don't think that by just listening to something means you automatically support them. I love Crotchdusters music, I don't think there's anything out there like them. They're so sexist though and sometimes I just can deal with it and have to turn it off, but at the same time I can sometimes take musical influence from them. I also understand however that their sexism is for shock value, I don't know what their views really are or if they have any at all. The same goes for Rammstein, the cover of their latest album is disgusting but I love their music and a lot of the time I don't have a fucking clue what they're saying because I don't speak German. I just take musical influence from them.