Protocols of Zion (9/11 and anti-Semitism : Against conspiracy theories on 9/11)

[ungovernable]

While we're at it, why not debate about the existence of aliens and UFO.

Conspiracy theories are like Aliens and UFO : you can't prove they exist and you can't prove they doesn't exist. So instead, why not focus on what we can prove it exists ?

[JesusCrust]

Or while we're at it, let's debate America's biggest past time. No, not baseball, but God.
Just like Conspiracy theories, as Ungov said:

you can't prove they exist and you can't prove they doesn't exist. So instead, why not focus on what we can prove it exists ?

No point on debating something that may or not be true, but rather let's focus on the results of an individual, or a mass group of people believe such is true.

[seitan]

Are you convinced that the government is only bad because of what you've heard in conspiracy theories? You're asking a very redundant question, which has a very redundant answer if you knew any of the reasons anarchists are anti-state and anti-capitalist.

didnt realise this question was aimed at me, quote me next time!

no.

So let me ask you the same question, What do YOU personally believe are the reasons government is bad, unnecessary, and undesirable, and what are YOUR ways of making people realize this?

i am not the one saying "smoke screen". i am not the one fighting to "end" governments, im realistic.
but, why are governments bad? because they exist to uphold the capitalist system for their own personal gains, to benefit their own "class".

[ungovernable]

but, why are governments bad? because they exist to uphold the capitalist system for their own personal gains, to benefit their own "class".

Then focus on that instead of wasting your time with conspiracy theories you can't even prove. At least you can clearly explain it with facts, instead of speculations and theories without evidences.

[seitan]

but, why are governments bad? because they exist to uphold the capitalist system for their own personal gains, to benefit their own "class".

Then focus on that instead of wasting your time with conspiracy theories you can't even prove. At least you can clearly explain it with facts, instead of speculations and theories without evidences.

and how do you suggest i show proof that governments are in it for their won good? how do i convince people of that?
you accuse me of wasting my time talking about conspircay theories (which i havent even done here) yet plenty people here talk total bullshit (as in pointless stuff) which is a waste of time. are you gonna tell them to stop wasting their time here and tell us all why governments suck?
can you explain why it is a smokescreen and why the governments are starting these conspiracies theories, id like to know why you feel they are doing this.

[ungovernable]

You're getting really annoying now. I explained many times why it is a smokescreen and a waste of time to avoid focusing on the real problems, you just refuse to hear anything. I wasted enough time with you.

If you don't even know how to explain that governments are useless then i wonder why the fuck you pretend to be an anarchist. If you absolutly need conspiracy theories comming from right-wing propaganda to demonstrate that governments are bad then it's a fucking joke.

[seitan]

You're getting really annoying now. I explained many times why it is a smokescreen and a waste of time to avoid focusing on the real problems, you just refuse to hear anything. I wasted enough time with you.

If you don't even know how to explain that governments are useless then i wonder why the fuck you pretend to be an anarchist. If you absolutly need conspiracy theories comming from right-wing propaganda to demonstrate that governments are bad then it's a fucking joke.

you have NOT explained many times, all you have said is "smokescreen" "real problems", you havent explained what they are exactly, and how you intend to educate the public about them, maybe you dont even know yourself?
ive never claimed to be an anarchist. i have been in to anarcgopunk since the early 80s, ive played in anarchopunk bands from the early 80s until this present day. i told you that because i knew your comeback would be "what the fuck are you doing here if youre not an anarchist"

this view of yours being that conspiracy theories come from right wing sources. have you ever made a decision for yourself without seeing it in some paper? thats the way some people work, they work things out for themselves.
i was in usa when the twin towers got blasted, i experienced the hatred white america then had for any non whites living in usa. whoever was responsible for the towers certainly did a good with race relations.

[Bakica]

Woh, I just found this video and watched it and I think it's brilliant. While I don't know if I should agree or disagree with you guys, I do have my opinion on this whole situation and it goes - fuck religion. I'm trying to find the reason of the problems, and in this case it is religion / government. I'm totally against conspiracy 9/11 and the "hate Jews" attitude is totally stupid. Me, to tell you the truth, don't care who did 9/11 or any other terrorist crimes, but what I do care are the conseqences of that act. Many people claim it's jews, islamists, terrorists etc. I find it pretty stupid. And about NWO and Zeitgeist stuff, I find them funny, just like government - if it comes to NWO one day, i will fight to destroy it, if the jews takeover the world I'll fight them, if terrorists do another crime I'll fight them.

p.s. - I won't fight anybody, I'm pretty much scared

[JesusCrust]

Wars should be fought with paintball guns and integrity.

[Bakica]

Wars should be fought with paintball guns and integrity.

yep, and when you get hit you're out of the war. That's really cool.

Also, back on the topic. I find the question "Who killed Jesus" really funny ! Jews did it ? Who the fuck cares ? The Bible says he had to die becouse of our sins, i think it was his destiny

[JesusCrust]

Against conspiracy theories: Why our activism must be based in reality

http://libcom.org/library/against-consp ... ed-reality
http://libcom.org/library/against-consp ... ed-reality
http://libcom.org/library/against-consp ... ed-reality

[THEBLACKNOVA]

Maybe it was a Chilean?

On September 11, I visited my neighbor to see how he was doing. He was dying of lung cancer, he was a Chilean refugee, his friend was over. The two of them were Socialist in Chile and belonged to Union Popular and they pointed to the TV and asked me if i knew what was going on. I said no. They said someone had attacked the United States, I think by this time only one of the towers was attacked.

They were wondering if it was a Chilean? It was Sept 11. And to them Sept 11 was the day that the socialist president they voted and fought to get elected, Salvador Allende died in a coup sponsored by the United States. People were tortured in Chile, people were killed, people went missing, others left the country and others found refuge in other continents. Little did they know that their Chile was going to be an economic experiment for something called Neo-liberalism. A stage for Milton Friedman and his Chicago boys to play with people lives and dreams of a better world, a new world would be created and privatization and the market was now the salvation of all.

They were socialist, anti-capitalist and under Allende they took lands and erected communities, horizontal, with decisions made in assemblies, socialist and anti-capitalist creating anarchists spaces. These communities sprouted over night on the outskirts of Santiago, they were called "callampas" or mushrooms.

When i think of my Chilean neighbor i think he was a Christian Anarchist. I remember asking him why he was a socialist and he said something like "I like being social. I like people. I don't want to exploit them." Or maybe he was a life styler, he would dumpster dive, cuz he too saw that the food was still good and was being wasted, he would collect old bikes and fix them and give them away to kids in the neighborhood. And if any one wonders, maybe apple&onions i don't think he was a primo but he would have listen to you and talked to you all day about ideas, or anything against capitalism.

I dint stay long to talk to them on 9/11, but it seemed like they were happy, talking and joking and laughing as to who had the balls to take a swing at the United States.

I remember going to a media class and everyone was watching a TV in the center of the class, as the teacher came in he shut if off and said something like "If we stop doing what we need to do that day whoever attacked the twin towers had won." It was an electronic news production class and i remember asking him "How much money do you think the video clips appearing on TV news were being bought for? Or sold for?" After all TV is about the bottom line, and it was a hot story and deals were being made on the spot for amazing footage. He did not answer me.

The guy sitting next to me asked me if i saw what happened that morning. I remember writing on a piece of paper and passing a note to him. It said "IT'S FIGHT CLUB LIVE!"

Every year in Chile people take to the streets and remember what went down, and as the night comes, barricades go up in neighborhoods, an "encapuchados" or hooded ones engage in street fights with the police, some hooded ones use guns against the police, for its a class war after all...

The Other 9/11 - Chile - Coup d'état - September 11, 1973


Some video from Sep 11, 2011