What to do with people in anarchistic society that don't follow the new program?

[Utopian]

Just wondering,what to do with people who would not obey the new rolls?
jail,death,forced labor,...

Also who would stop this kind of people,let say that they are going to rob a bank who will stop them?


-Sorry really stupid questions

[crustybeckham]

Everyone should obey the anarchist spring roll.

I would go for medieval torture to convert the non-believers. Or make them listen to Sting.

[butcher]

Siberia, obviously.

[butcher]

oh yeah, and how does one rob a bank when a. there are no banks & b. social wealth is held in common?

[Utopian]

oh yeah, and how does one rob a bank when a. there are no banks & b. social wealth is held in common?

sorry i'm a total noob at how could an anarchistic system work.
Will try to read some articles on this

interesting but i dont get it pleas explain

[Danarchy]

Just wondering,what to do with people who would not obey the new rolls?
jail,death,forced labor,...

Also who would stop this kind of people,let say that they are going to rob a bank who will stop them?


-Sorry really stupid questions

These are not stupid questions. Obedience to the new regime or adoption of the new social order in a anarchist context can be dealt with on many levels depending on the circumstances. I don't agree necessarily that there wouldn't be a form a currency exchange but there would not be any banks to rob. As the social organization would be based on individual participation most forms of capitalist motivation being gone, money, power, etc. people would work because they choose to.

I have worked about 5 'jobs' in my life. I have enjoyed each one as it provided me to learn several skills and while I ejoyed my duties I remained, once I felt that the job was no longer enjoyable I quit. This is not to say that I 'liked' everything I did or every day that I did it rather over the 3-5 years in that role I took from the position all of the experiences it had to offer. I now work at a 'job' that is not even like work, my 'employer' is a worker run cooperative that I have an equal say in, where all 'co-workers' respect the opinions of others. The products of our collective labour however are still not ours to distrobute free or as we would choose, we are required to sell the majority of what we grow to pay our bills. In an anarchist system each workplace would be organized in a similar context, within this context peer pressure is an amazing force as is peer respect and collective recognition. Most jobs in our North American capitalist system would also disappear.

So much time in our societies are devoted to paper, administration, beauracracy. So much energy wasted on what is essentially nothing. Did these people choose to be paper pushers? Have you ever heard a child say, "when I grow up I want to be a BEAURACRAT." But I have heard many say, I wish I could live here (refering to our rural paradise), I wish I could live off the land. To those people I say what's stopping you. If I can do this, and so many of my friends can do this what is your excuse? Do you need the security of a 'job'? (many of those tourists here are in the 250k income range) or can you not part with the convenience? But what happens when their job no longer exists. Around here people retire and become farmers at 60, or they become artisans and devote time to the hobbies and crafts they had. I find that very odd, to wait until the end of your life to spend your time doing what you want. Why not opt out of the system and do it NOW. With these people we barter, trade, celebrate, support; with those tourists we sell and maintain a reasonable truce, you stay at the lake and we'll stay behind the hills.

But the question was, if I had the ability to choose what I grow and who ate the products of my labour how would our group stop those that did not participate in the anarchist system from robbing us or taking the product of our labour by force/ theft. I own a rifle and I am a damn good shot at 300 meters/ yards but we would offer participation with us first, I have many friends with military training that have said they would bring their families to us if things really spiralled out of control. This resistance would also be directed to those that would choose to impliment soviet style reforms on my farm. Possibly I would be one of those you may believe to be non-conformist with the new peudo anarchist regime. Possibly your anarchism is limited by a hyphenation like A-communism or A-syndicalism and in reality you just want to impose a specific regime under the guise of anarchism. Personally I believe that we can not build an anarchist world/ society all we can do is create an anarchist community and autonomous zones whenever the opportunity provides. From those communities, zones more can be built until the system becomes irrelevant. I do not 'ask' our local, provincial, federal governments for anything. When we build a building we do not ask for a permit/ permission we just do it. We do not arrange for a special event liquor license we just sell beer or better yet give it away with a request for a 'donation', someone has to pay for the keg At this time, of course, none of this has been an issue and I do not fight for anarchism for today, I fight in the hope that my children will enjoy it.

An aside from my son, he's 3. Why did the Pinguin cross the road? Cause he didn't have a bandage to see the dentist.

[apples&onions]

There will be no "program". No society. The future cannot be pre written. I don't want your fuckin utopia!!! No one/collective has the right to force their will on another in the way this question implies. Forced labor/jail/bank robbing are things that have no place in the context of real life.

(sorry punkmarr)

SOME PRINCIPLES OF HISTORY

"99. Think of history as being the sum of two components: an erratic component that consists of unpredictable events that follow no discernible pattern, and a regular component that consists of long-term historical trends. Here we are concerned with the long-term trends.

100. FIRST PRINCIPLE. If a SMALL change is made that affects a long-term historical trend, then the effect of that change will almost always be transitory - the trend will soon revert to its original state. (Example: A reform movement designed to clean up political corruption in a society rarely has more than a short-term effect; sooner or later the reformers relax and corruption creeps back in. The level of political corruption in a given society tends to remain constant, or to change only slowly with the evolution of the society. Normally, a political cleanup will be permanent only if accompanied by widespread social changes; a SMALL change in the society won't be enough.) If a small change in a long-term historical trend appears to be permanent, it is only because the change acts in the direction in which the trend is already moving, so that the trend is not altered but only pushed a step ahead.

101. The first principle is almost a tautology. If a trend were not stable with respect to small changes, it would wander at random rather than following a definite direction; in other words it would not be a long-term trend at all. ✲1

102. SECOND PRINCIPLE. If a change is made that is sufficiently large to alter permanently a long-term historical trend, than it will alter the society as a whole. In other words, a society is a system in which all parts are interrelated, and you can't permanently change any important part without change all the other parts as well.

103. THIRD PRINCIPLE. If a change is made that is large enough to alter permanently a long-term trend, then the consequences for the society as a whole cannot be predicted in advance. (Unless various other societies have passed through the same change and have all experienced the same consequences, in which case one can predict on empirical grounds that another society that passes through the same change will be like to experience similar consequences.)

104. FOURTH PRINCIPLE. A new kind of society cannot be designed on paper. That is, you cannot plan out a new form of society in advance, then set it up and expect it to function as it was designed to.

105. The third and fourth principles result from the complexity of human societies. A change in human behavior will affect the economy of a society and its physical environment; the economy will affect the environment and vice versa, and the changes in the economy and the environment will affect human behavior in complex, unpredictable ways; and so forth. The network of causes and effects is far too complex to be untangled and understood.

106. FIFTH PRINCIPLE. People do not consciously and rationally choose the form of their society. Societies develop through processes of social evolution that are not under rational human control.

107. The fifth principle is a consequence of the other four."

Industrial society and its future

[apples&onions]

Siberia, obviously.

Ha, ha, ha... awe I made myself sad thinking of all the innocent lives fucked over...

Great post, as always Danarchy!

That people aren't following the "program" is probably a sign that the system does not work. Fuck a system.

[punkmar77]

(sorry punkmarr)

Sorry for what? Anarchism isn't a pre-set book of laws on how to run a society and it is definitely not a system, and I agree that not any one collective will authorize authority over another...however there are clear ideas and theories that have proven themselves over time, that are free to be adopted or rejected by any collective.

Of course anti-civ enthusiasts and primitivists are to be systematically eradicated and executed immediately once the revolution is won and we have disarmed them...you can read all this in my new book "How To Do It, And Who To Do It To" only $29.99 from Amazon...

[apples&onions]

I'm chillin in Santa rosa with some friends and I just read and I'm high and I just thought that your joke was the funniest thing ever. I told it to my friends but first I had to explain about anarcho punk and this site but they thought it was funny.

So listen, In referring to the piece I posted to my friends I told my friends you can't plan for the future. Of course I meant to say it is useless to predict the future outcomes of human societies. Of course you can do everything you said in your post and more, but it was funny... They were playing chess...

[xhdrx]

tch. naturally I'd start my own version of the cheka and have them shot.

just kidding. I'd leave them alone or suggest they start up their own system in parallel in another place, maybe do trade with them if self-sufficiency didn't meet it's expected goals.

[butcher]

Of course anti-civ enthusiasts and primitivists are to be systematically eradicated and executed immediately once the revolution is won and we have disarmed them...you can read all this in my new book "How To Do It, And Who To Do It To" only $29.99 from Amazon...

Just got a copy, it is excellent comrade! BTW, have you got my new release: 'Californians: an infantile disorder'?

[punkmar77]

BTW, have you got my new release: 'Californians: an infantile disorder'?

Don't tell me what to do!

[butcher]

BTW, have you got my new release: 'Californians: an infantile disorder'?

Don't tell me what to do!

But it's a question...

[apples&onions]

uh oh... punkmarr must be high...

[punkmar77]

infantile non-sequiter? ...sheesh

[butcher]

infantile non-sequiter? ...sheesh

Good one, smart arse. How do you like manufacturing asbestos powder?

[apples&onions]

jk jk...

[Ignorance1312]

Look. First in an anarchist world there would be no program. Second people would not steal. Thirdly it wouldn't be stealing. And seriously "forced labour, prison, death"? are you Stalin?

[VeganShteve]

Just wondering,what to do with people who would not obey the new rolls?
jail,death,forced labor,...

Also who would stop this kind of people,let say that they are going to rob a bank who will stop them?


-Sorry really stupid questions

Obvious troll is obvious.