Abortion

[Saering]

Alright, I've been thinking over the past few days and realized that despite the fact that i recently attended a christian school i never really put a whole lot of thought into the matter, so i began wondering what are my fellow anarchists opinions on abortion?

[Anxiety69]

100% Pro choice.

[Ring Of Truth]

As a man it isn't my position to tell a girl if it is the right or wrong thing. There are circumstances where it may be the better choice (rape, molestation as examples). But it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control, if you can't live with the potential consequences of sex then don't have sex, or at least use other forms of birth control and safety procedures.

[dwtcos]

100% anti fetus (: naked aggression-killing floor.

[Carcass]

As a man it isn't my position to tell a girl if it is the right or wrong thing.

This. In general, I think it's too bad that people have to get abortions...but people have to get abortions. It's been happening throughout human history. A lot of non-human animals do it too.

Life is a gift from mother to child; it's not something to which any of us are entitled. Whatever potential babies hold, they are are burdens at the outset. Circumstances beyond a mother's control don't always accomodate a burden. She has to be free to make that call.

The world's a shitty place anyway, they're not missing much.

[disfuck]

pro abortion

[punkmar77]

When Lions eat their cubs do they go to hell? We are a blight on this planet...the longer we're here the more plague like we become. Abortion is a form of self deciding population control...as long as the state does not impose mandatory abortion then it should always be made available on demand, no if's and's or but's.

[Anxiety69]

The world's a shitty place anyway, they're not missing much.

Lol well said. i always think int the perspective of is it right to force a woman not to have an abortion, bring an unwanted child into the world that will grow up without love? Adoption is all nice and well, but it sounds easier then I'm sure it actually is to expect a woman to go to term. Again, i also agree as a male, what right do i have to decide? (i just make sure i date women who don't want children and aren't going to force themselves into motherhood if they accidentally get pregnant.)

[NGNM85]

The Anarchist position ld be pro-choice as Anarchism is a secular philosophy and thus takes the materialist view of the world. The only real objection to abortion necessitates belief in magic or spirits or some other nonsense. As ridiculous as these beliefs are they have very real and tragic consequences, impeding vital stem cell research, for example, because religious nuts are worried about a cell or a small clump of cells contains a magic essence and is, therefore, morally equivalent to a grown human being. This is preposterous.

This issue becomes abundantly clear once we consider the facts. Something like 50% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester. Now, we know the brain, the seat of consciousness, isn't formed until about 10 or 11 weeks in, therefore, it cannot be remotely classified as a person. (Unless of course you bring in the magic essence.) You also have to exclude fetuses that are already dead, or suffering from devastating birth defects, like missing vital organs, like a brain. (Although proposed bans from the religious right usually don't make any exceptions.) So, you realize, there's a great number of these procedures that aren't even an issue. Personally, I think even after 10-11 weeks we're still dealing with a potential person, not a person itself, but that's really beside the point. What matters is the individual rights of the woman. I ask pro-lifers if they would consider it morally acceptable for me to force them to endure an organ transplant, if I could forcibly take a kidney, or whatever. This illuminates the issue quite clearly. The woman has total sovreignty over her body, it is hers alone. Even if we accept the erroneous idea that life begins at conception, she is not obligated to support that life. The ideology of the so-called pro-life movement at the moment of conception, reduces a woman to a talking incubator, nothing more.

One final aside I'd just like to mention, it's a paraphrase from some scientist who's name I've forgotten; a surefire method to drive pro-lifers into a frothing at the mouth fury.
As many as one in five conceptions results in miscarriage, often for totally inexplicable reasons. Now, if we believe in a supernatural creator, who designed the uterus and everything else, especially if they believe in a god who intervenes in daily life, as opposed to the "blind watchmaker"; God MUST be the most prolific abortionist in human history.

[Jimmy DeLocke]

Did y'all know that abortions aren't available in over 90% of counties in the US? It might be legal but it's not very available. At the UofA in Tucson they don't teach it so they can get more money from some bullshit deal. Anyway, important to look at. Check out the story of Jane- underground abortion service in Chicago started in like 69 or so. Started out with a male doctor that wasn't so bad. Then the all woman organization got him to teach them the procedure and they taught each other and performed many abortions for almost no $. Now it's legal and expensive.

[back2front]

There's always something very wrong about old men making laws for young women.

NGNM85's point about sentience is important here - there is no consciousness per se for the first 10 weeks of the first trimester, so strictly speaking we are not talking about a person difficult though that may sound. It's a vital distinction from the moral perspective.

But whatever the implications it is a woman's choice what she does with her body and no fucker has the right to dictate otherwise, ever!

[Vegetarian Barbarian]

Pro choice all the way here. There are a lot of people that are still in the world today who should have late term abortions performed on themselves.

[Rathryn]

Putting aside the abortions for the mother's safety I'm pro-choice as long as it is not, as previously said, an alternative to birth-control. There's at LEAST morning-after-pills if you're concerned about a potential pregnancy, anything else is a stupid mistake and like most stupid mistakes you'll have to bear the consequences.
In Dutch: he who burns his ass, must sit on the blisters.
That's crude and blunt as usual though... lol

[Steiner]

For all those religious folk.

"As a man it isn't my position to tell a girl if it is the right or wrong thing."

The best summing up of the male role in this debate.

But if you are looking for another males opinion. 100% Pro-Choice.

[dwtcos]

Has anyone heard of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_ ... ime_effect

[Ring Of Truth]

Has anyone heard of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_ ... ime_effect

Well it does make sense. I mean think about it, to live as an unwanted child can be worse than if you were aborted, it can lead to a lot of psychiatric problems, not to mention how many of those kids will turn to crime and drugs. Also I am willing to bet that if some of these unwanted children were aborted, there would be less teenage suicides. If you are unwanted and neglected, or even put through the foster home system it can be a fate way worse than death.

And about pro-lifers I wrote a song about how it seems that Republicans seem to be hypocritical when it comes to that. They say they are pro-life because they are anti-abortion, but they support war which kills far more people than abortion will... here are the lyrics:
Say you're pro-life
but you support war
can't abort children
but they can die in your war

my children won't be
cannon fodder for your war!

Give life a chance
end the war.

[Cocytus]

Post birth abortion.

I am in favor of there being a world wide Z.P.G. instated for at least 20 years, look what happened to china.

Breeding is the most selfish, and horrible thing a person could do.

[dwtcos]

Post birth abortion.

I am in favor of there being a world wide Z.P.G. instated for at least 20 years, look what happened to china.

Breeding is the most selfish, and horrible thing a person could do.

You realize that zero population growth is a condition and can't just be applied like some sort of law and to reach that condition people will still need to reproduce just at a slower rate.

[Cocytus]

It needs to be enforced as a law.

[punkmar77]

How would that be enforced? I would kill the first motherfucker who tried to enforce it...and in turn be killed I'm sure; that would be the epitome of state oppression... I live with a couple who tried for ten years to have a baby and finally they had one two months ago, they are happy with one and don't plan on more.. I think that is a better answer, out of two only one but it has to be education and self control that brings it on, not authoritarian enforcement