Do you give money to vagrants?

[skulldrix]

Beggars
Vagrants
panhandlers
homeless
etc.

People that beg for money on the streets, usually nomadic and homeless.

What is you're opinion on lumpenproletariats in general?

I'm not sure how you're supposed to feel about people who basically make a living off of other hard working people's money. I've met a bunch of homeless people and I know they didn't choose to be homeless, usually shit went down when they were young where they were kicked out of their homes or had to runaway, and became squatters and drugs dealers etc.

But then I've met those that came from rich families and then all of a sudden decided to hop trains and be poor. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to react to those people also. Isn't it kind of a rip off that you just decide to throw away you're middle class life and then just sleep in a park?

And then theres those who just don't want jobs. I've met some pretty cool punk homeless kids who went to college and stuff and CHOSE to be homeless because they are anti-work or something,so they believe that going against that is basically ripping off working people for their money, and making like $30 a day sitting on the sidewalk or playing violin.

Some stoner with a fauxhawk told me to stay away from these people because they are fucked up in the head.

I'm pretty fucked up in the head just trying to survive highschool,and living with my parents.

But people generally look down at them as scum, and losers, and bums.

What do you thinK, do you feel sympathy for these people or any sort of empathy?

I know I don't feel apathy because I've hung out with some trainhoppers and they were very nice people, but then again some of them were kind of classist and not interested unless you are a dumpster diver. It's pretty much a whole bohemian lifestyle that becomes attached to the whole gypsy, traveller,hobo thing, going to festivals etc.

Some of it's pretty cool and some of it's pretty fucked up and stupid. I know people who have broken limbs hopping trains.

I'm not saying I'm bout to runaway and hop train and not saying that to anybody, because that's pretty redundant.

But what are you're opinions?

[Anxiety69]

I usually say to them they picked the wrong person to ask, and point out that if i look like i have money to spare, it's deceptive. I'm not rude about it, but i am dirt poor myself, and every cent helps. If someone is rude about it I usually ignore them.

[c00k]

As someone who does this on occasion to make a few bucks for food, beer, or on occasional seedy motel room, I can spot a fake from a mile away. I can tell who legitimately needs help and who wants to make money. Someone outside of a gas station (after already getting a dollar from me) demanded that I give him more to get something to eat. I told him the gas station had fresh apple for .79 cents, fresh oranges for .69 cents, and granola bars for .89 cents. He said he didn't want to eat that "hippie crap" and wanted some real "good american food." I took my dollar back and told him to go fucking hassle someone else then. This city is absolutely INFESTED with homeless people, and a lot of them are the shitty type of panhandlers. The ones that if ignored will hassle you, yell at you, insult you, and generally do anything for attention. I think they like the attention more than the money, honestly. I don't ever actually say anything to people, I just sit somewhere busy and fly my sign. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[nike]

He said he didn't want to eat that "hippie crap" and wanted some real "good american food." I took my dollar back and told him to go fucking hassle someone else then.

i think people in social distress are as stupid/smart/un-conscious or conscious about their situation like anybody else "normal".
up to a degree i can understand that somebody less conscious "don't want to eat that hippie crab" because he is still caught up in his ordinary-citizen-view of the world and himself in it, going "below" your personal standard means acceptance of the situation you're in - some can't do this or try to evade it. i knew some tramps in the past who still needed their "little luxuries" here and there, it's their way to deal with the hard sides of their life.
i don't remember right now who wrote:
"freedom in capitalism is slavery - it's only a question of the length of the chain around your neck"
"civil liberties" are an illusion you have to pay for - if you can't pay for rent, living standards and consumerism you drop out of the line, loosing your home, the acceptance of family and friends, your former neighbors and fellow citizens on the street and lots of other things too - too bad if this happens involuntarily as a result of accidents, illness, social or mental problems, the up and down of economy....
and as i said before, some get it and some don't - still clinging to their "old" life and the promises of society.

in general i think the "lumpens" aren't parasites or anything else "leeching" on the working class, most or or at least many of them never had a choice to decide about their fate. running the rat race is tiring and risky, it's easy to stumble and fall. some of them may be too efficient and almost impertinently chasing a dime, okay, it's a personal thing how to deal with that.
but nobody chooses to live at the bottom of everything and it's a very different thing to drop out by choice to be part of a sub-culture or anti-society rejecting the capitalist chain starting to work out utopia more or less at the center of the still rat racing society.
and even panhandlers are still better than cops and soldiers working for thieves and murderers just for a living and the illusion of freedom and democracy...

[DZA]

I go busking every now and then, people don't seem to mind it and if they don't give me any money that's perfectly fine by me. Occasionally people from shops and offices will come out and ask me to move on and the majority of the time they've been polite and so i'm polite back and usually do move on. Last week a guy came out and said "if I give you a quid will you move a bit further down the street?" I was about to move on anway so was like "sure man!" haha

[c00k]

I go busking every now and then, people don't seem to mind it and if they don't give me any money that's perfectly fine by me. Occasionally people from shops and offices will come out and ask me to move on and the majority of the time they've been polite and so i'm polite back and usually do move on. Last week a guy came out and said "if I give you a quid will you move a bit further down the street?" I was about to move on anway so was like "sure man!" haha

exactly my approach. just picked up a harmonica to busk on my upcoming travels, got my girlfriend a bellydancer skirt too

[Sarmaister]

i give only if they play something or perform stunts or stuff , that way i consider they earned it .

[vAsSiLy77]

I go busking every now and then, people don't seem to mind it and if they don't give me any money that's perfectly fine by me. Occasionally people from shops and offices will come out and ask me to move on and the majority of the time they've been polite and so i'm polite back and usually do move on. Last week a guy came out and said "if I give you a quid will you move a bit further down the street?" I was about to move on anway so was like "sure man!" haha

exactly my approach. just picked up a harmonica to busk on my upcoming travels, got my girlfriend a bellydancer skirt too

For some really unique experiences try the whole project with changed roles... or else beware of marauding hordes of feminists...

And in general there is a fine @-communist basic ruling my humble being:
From each according to ability to each according to need

that way i consider they earned it

???

[Sarmaister]

yeah , if i see an able man or woman begging then i wont give it to them . maybe if they have no legs or stuff i give em some money but i never give something for nothing. if they play then i pay for the music they make , if they perform then i pay for the performance if they dont do anything - most of the time those people are professional beggars and i have no empathy towards them . a lot of times its a business and they have their own pimps and stuff (gypsies in particular)

[ViciousCesar!]

I'm pretty broke myself, but I make a conscious effort to help out when I can. Other than the usual dollar bill here and there; I keep leftovers and give them to anyone who asks or looks like they need it and I collect change in my ashtray and when it gets to being an acceptable amount I'll give it the first person that approaches me at a red light/freeway onramp. Once I even took a random punk who was asking for change out for a full meal just because I had enough money to do so.
It's kind of cool because being generous is contagious. I've been at freeway off ramps where there will be a person asking for change and nobody will want to give them anything. But I'll call the person over and hand them a dollar or whatever and then you'll see everyone roll their windows down and begin to give them money also. I've seen this happen multiple times. I like it and i hate it at the same time. I say I hate it because people shouldn't wait until somebody else makes the first move.
But this in no way means that I give money to just anyone. I won't give shit to people who give me some bullshit story like "my wife just kicked me out and took all my money. Can you give me a couple of bucks for gas?" all the while looking like they are dressed for a night out at a club. I won't give to former military assholes who act like they are entitled to it. We once had this guy yelling at our car saying shit like "I fought for your freedom. I'm a REAL american hero. I'll take on all four of you guys at once..." blah, blah, blah.. Let's just say we had a good laugh, but he didn't get shit in return.

[punkmar77]

(gypsies in particular)

[Sarmaister]

yeah , too bad , but it is the way it is.

[vAsSiLy77]

most of the time those people are professional beggars and i have no empathy towards them . a lot of times its a business and they have their own pimps and stuff (gypsies in particular)

I think there are always certain reasons responsible for the habits/the behaviour of individuals and groups - like "the gypsies" ect.
Prejudices and limitations in economic or social aspects are forcing certain parts of the population into specific roles, especially the weaker parts like the long-term unemployed falling out of the "normal" society.
They aren't "unwilling" or "workshy" while "able" to work, but for sure they don't receive enough support to change their situation - the economy doesn't need them, so they are forced to find some socially less accepted means to survive with the starvation wages they get for being left out of everything.
I agree with Nike's remark:

some get it and some don't - still clinging to their "old" life and the promises of society.

so you get beggars in pinstripes and veterans asking for the fatherlands gratitude... and never judge a book only by the cover!

Once upon a time some 90 years ago, the gypsies had their very own economy, nomadic herding and hiring out for agricultural work or getting employed for music and dancing entertainment, while keeping their unique lifestyle and culture - now the economical basics for their way of living are gone - so they adapted as best as they could and sadly became the object of prejudices and contempt - and don't forget how murderous their persecution was in the catholic parts of the balkans or the concentration camps of the germun nazis.
Blaming them for "cheating", fraud and trickery but ignoring their status as a-social underdogs almost everywhere they show up?
Who are we, punks and anarchists in particular, that we could judge other deviants from "normal" society into the very same categories we are thrown into by the same repressive society that always condemned them?

[anthropophagus]

I do try to help the homeless, but as a rule I don't like to give money.
There have been times I've bough homeless people lunches, or just given them things to drink but I don't normally have money to spare. I used to work at subway and there were homeless people that would come in to warm up. One of my coworkers and I would make them odds and ends subs, or give them free meals as long as they weren't wrecking things in the restaurant. We don't have gypsies here.

[punkmar77]

yeah , too bad , but it is the way it is.

but you're not prejudiced or biased at all, right?

[danzigmcfly]

i have no problem at all giving money to bums, i know that money isn't that important. who am i to say who is more deserving of funds. that guy is living on the street, im not living on the street. i work at a fast food place selling garbage to suburban trash that doesn't even appreciate the fact that with a mere utterance they will receive an entire meal (granted not a healthy one) in 60 to 120 seconds and i don't feel am a productive member of society and the aforementioned suburban trash do similar petty tasks to get by. so why would you deny 'em what makes you and you're life and luxury so much more so then theirs even if they are gonna spend it on drugs fuck it it's not like you can pay rent beggin' i mean fuck just give the guy a dollar is it too much i doubt you were gonna do anything that super special with it and if they bitch about it so what. if it makes them feel any better to be a bitter dick let it go whats the point in getting angry it doesn't help you or him. oh yeah and as for suburban douches who think its fun to pretend to be poor when you, I, and them know that if they ever get tired of pretend time their parents can bail them out FUCK THAT SHIT. i grew up poor being hungry ain't no joke now in fairness some of them may learn some important life lessons but i feel the vast majority just wont and cant provided their safety net is in place

[nike]

Who are we, punks and anarchists in particular, that we could judge other deviants from "normal" society into the very same categories we are thrown into by the same repressive society that always condemned them?

and

i have no problem at all giving money to bums, i know that money isn't that important. who am i to say who is more deserving of funds. that guy is living on the street, im not living on the street.

really made my morning today, so you both get a big !

And in general there is a fine @-communist basic ruling my humble being:
From each according to ability to each according to need

but what's about the disabled in your humble @-communism, tawarishch commissar?

[skulldrix]

I'm pretty broke myself, but I make a conscious effort to help out when I can. Other than the usual dollar bill here and there; I keep leftovers and give them to anyone who asks or looks like they need it and I collect change in my ashtray and when it gets to being an acceptable amount I'll give it the first person that approaches me at a red light/freeway onramp. Once I even took a random punk who was asking for change out for a full meal just because I had enough money to do so.
It's kind of cool because being generous is contagious. I've been at freeway off ramps where there will be a person asking for change and nobody will want to give them anything. But I'll call the person over and hand them a dollar or whatever and then you'll see everyone roll their windows down and begin to give them money also. I've seen this happen multiple times. I like it and i hate it at the same time. I say I hate it because people shouldn't wait until somebody else makes the first move.
But this in no way means that I give money to just anyone. I won't give shit to people who give me some bullshit story like "my wife just kicked me out and took all my money. Can you give me a couple of bucks for gas?" all the while looking like they are dressed for a night out at a club. I won't give to former military assholes who act like they are entitled to it. We once had this guy yelling at our car saying shit like "I fought for your freedom. I'm a REAL american hero. I'll take on all four of you guys at once..." blah, blah, blah.. Let's just say we had a good laugh, but he didn't get shit in return.

You see this is the same problem with me. Though I don't know if it is a problem. I'm too fucking nice, and generous. I've given expensive food, I've given one guy all my fucking tokens, 5 dollar bills, I've once walked down the street and gave money to every single homeless person on the block, people behind me started to follow my lead so yeah generosity is contagious. I've even befriended homeless people and shit,and jesus even looked for these people to give them food. I've also, sat with them and made money for them( having a 15 year old girl by your side makes people more compassionate).

The only reason I do this is because if I was in the same situation I'd want people to be generous to me. I can't not look at less wealthy people and not feel bad. That's the problem with me, I'm too nice, expecting people to truly value that.

Maybe if it was a different non-capitalist society, I wouldn't feel this way. But I feel terrible sometimes about myself and my altruistic bullshit. Because even though I feel some sort of relief that I am able to help out I know that they will still be begging on the street for more. It's not even than it's just, damn, that's why I hate the city there is just no sense of community except for your own blood, italians with italians, blacks with blacks, rich with rich, etc.

I've let people treat me like shit for too long that's probably why I feel this way, fuck them. But I think empathy is very important step towards becoming and anarchist. Just in my oppinion.

[vAsSiLy77]

but what's about the disabled in your humble @-communism, tawarishch commissar?

Nike Mikhailowna, there are no "disabled" amongst our fellow wo/man kind, because they inspire us simply by being what they are and remind us of strong social bonds like empathy and solidarity:

Prosocial behavior
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Prosocial behavior, or "voluntary behavior intended to benefit another" consists of actions which "benefit other people or society as a whole," "such as helping, sharing, donating, co- operating, and volunteering." These actions may be motivated by empathy and by concern about the welfare and rights of others, as well as for for egoistic or practical concerns.
Evidence suggests that prosociality is central to the well-being of social groups across a range of scales.
Prosocial behavior fosters positive traits that are beneficial for children and society. It may be motivated both by altruism and by self-interest, for reasons of immediate benefit or future reciprocity. Encouraging prosocial behavior may also require decreasing or eliminating undesirable social behaviors.
Although the term "Prosocial behavior" is often associated with developing desirable traits in children, the literature on the topic has grown since the late 1980s to include adult behaviors as well.

and:

Reciprocity vs. altruism in prosocial behavior motivation
The purist forms of prosocial behavior are motivated by altruism, an unselfish interest in helping another person. According to Sanstock, the circumstances most likely to evoke altruism are empathy for an individual in need, or a close relationship between the benefactor and the recipient. However, many prosocial behaviors that appear altruistic are in fact motivated by the norm of reciprocity, which is the obligation to return a favor with a favor. People feel guilty when they do not reciprocate and they may feel angry when someone else does not reciprocate. Either reciprocity or altruism may motivate many important prosocial behaviors, including sharing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosocial_behavior
and further (especially for the collectivist's sake):

In the animal world we have seen that the vast majority of species live in societies, and that they find in association the best arms for the struggle for life: understood, of course, in its wide Darwinian sense – not as a struggle for the sheer means of existence, but as a struggle against all natural conditions unfavourable to the species. The animal species, in which individual struggle has been reduced to its narrowest limits, and the practice of mutual aid has attained the greatest development, are invariably the most numerous, the most prosperous, and the most open to further progress. The mutual protection which is obtained in this case, the possibility of attaining old age and of accumulating experience, the higher intellectual development, and the further growth of sociable habits, secure the maintenance of the species, its extension, and its further progressive evolution. The unsociable species, on the contrary, are doomed to decay. — Peter Kropotkin, Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution (1902), Conclusion.

[NumberLast]

The homeless hold a close place in my heart because my family has come all to close to living on the street. When I have money, which is almost never, at least half of it goes to worthy seeming homeless. I'm more likely to give it to vagrants who aren't begging or just have great personalities. I also make a habit of trading clothes at homeless camps, summer clothes in exchange for winter clothes an vice-versa. It helps them and I get new clothes w/o using a corporate outlet. Nothing could make me happier.