Middle Eastern Revolutions!

[ungovernable]

Is/was there a genocide in Palestine?

I commemorated Holocaust Memorial Day with survivor Dr Hajo Meyer and some other Jewish friends after a talk at Goldsmith University last week. It is now clear to me that Palestinians have many common experiences with the survivors of the Holocaust.

Meyer's imprisonment in the ghetto and ordeal at checkpoints is a stereotypical image in occupied Palestine. I was amazed to hear him admit that the Palestinians' suffering is close to those who endured the Holocaust. I was also amazed because I heard it not from a Palestinian, but from a Jewish man who has suffered a lot.

For a long time, it has been widely argued that genocide has not been committed in Palestine. While some "left-leaning" media outlets say there was genocide, one that is still in progress, the Israeli narrative rejects the use of this term for the Palestinian experience. Without doubt, the Germans perpetrated genocide against the Jews in WWII. Around 6 million Jews were killed across Europe in an act that can never be tolerated by humanity. It is also a well known fact, but rarely mentioned, that a total of over 50 million people, were either murdered or died from disease and starvation.

There have, however, been genocides against many other people, such as the American Indians, the Armenians and the South Africans, which must also be remembered. Unlike the Holocaust, most of these genocides are not as focused on. Surely the fact that genocide has occurred must be condemned no matter who were the victims. Indeed, this seems to be the feeling of many Holocaust survivors themselves. They believe it is crucial to recognize, condemn and fight genocides wherever they are happening, no matter whether it involves a few thousand or millions.

The core question here is: are the Palestinians suffering a genocide perpetrated by the government of Israel? (as many people believe). Has Israel attempted to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their land? Is the term genocide legally applicable? Readers must make their own judgment.

In 1944, Polish-Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin coined the word "genocide" by combining "geno," from the Greek word for race or tribe, with "cide" from the Latin word for killing. He proposed that genocide consists of "a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves."

Has this been happening in Palestine? According to the history of the founding of Israel, thousands of violent actions have been committed against one group of people: Palestinians. More than 535 villages were destroyed, thousands of residents were massacred and around 800,000 people were driven from their homes by force or fear of force. This process is described by Israeli historian Ilan Pappé and others as ‘the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.' Since genocide is essentially the annihilation of a group, surely this is genocide.

On Dec. 9, 1948, the United Nations approved the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. This convention established "genocide" as an international crime, which signatory nations "undertake to prevent and punish." It defines genocide this way: Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group:

Killing members of the group:
In 1948, thousands of Palestinians were exterminated by terrorist Jewish groups like the Stern, Haganah and Irgun. Other villagers were told to leave or they would be killed. The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948. More than 100 villagers, including women and children, were annihilated. Some were shot with live ammunition, while others burned to death as rockets rained down on the village. Prisoners were killed after being paraded through the streets in occupied Jerusalem; and it didn't stop in 1948. In 1956, a massacre of 500 villagers took place in Khan Younis in the middle of the Gaza Strip; others killed were Egyptians, who were policing the area at that time.

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group:
The deadly siege in Gaza could easily be considered genocide according to this description. Bodily harm has been caused, not only during the siege or the last invasion (December 2008/January 2009), but since the beginning of the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

The overwhelming majority of the victims have been civilians, whereas only a small minority were resistance fighters. Some international agencies claim that 93 percent of those victimized were civilian, while only 7% were resistance fighters. (See the report, "Failing Gaza.")

Organized and systematic attacks against civilians in Gaza are also part of the genocide. Several months before Operation Cast Lead, an Israeli minister even used the term "holocaust" to describe what was planned for the citizens of Gaza. On Feb. 28, 2008, the Guardian, BBC and other British media outlets reported the story under the headline: "Israeli minister warns of Palestinian 'holocaust'." The Guardian reported that "an Israeli minister today warned of an increasingly bitter conflict in the Gaza Strip, saying the Palestinians could bring on themselves what he called a "holocaust".

"The more Qassam [rocket] fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," Matan Vilnai, Israel's deputy defense minister, told Army Radio.

"Shoah" is the Hebrew word normally reserved to refer to the Jewish Holocaust. It is rarely used in Israel outside discussions of the Nazi extermination of Jews during the second World War, and many Israelis are loath to countenance its use to describe other events.

Mental harm must also be considered. As pointed out in many UN agency reports, all Gazan children suffer mental and emotional problems. Stress and trauma make the children sick-minded due to constant fear. They have no opportunities for fun and joy, since the Israeli blockade even includes a ban on toys. It is not an exaggeration to say that a considerable number of the Gazan population are exhausted and mentally drained. They live with the constant realities of deprivation, war, restriction of freedom and death.

Inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part:
This has been happening for years, ever since the establishment of the state of Israel. Focusing on the Gaza Strip today, the siege has impacted every aspect of life. Factories have stopped operating and food just trickles in. In addition, people have no freedom of movement beyond their "concentration camp," with just two gates that open irregularly.

The Israeli blockade on exports and on all but humanitarian imports has forced 98 percent of Gaza's industry to close. Around 1.5 million Palestinians live in just 360 square kms., (139 square miles). More than three-quarters of the residents are refugees whose families were driven from their land, in what is now Israel, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

The remaining two characteristics of what constitutes genocide include: imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group and transferring children of the group to another group. These remaining two characteristics were most evident in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and the 1967 war.


also see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic ... _Palestine
http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/112608Lendman.shtml
http://sites.google.com/site/palestiniangenocide/
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6374.shtml

[ungovernable]

Israel has been, since its inception, a giant laboratory for terrorism in the Middle East.

The late professor Israel Shahak, a Holocaust survivor, and then chairman of the Israeli League for Human and Civil Rights, wrote: "There is nothing new in the fact that Israel is a terrorist state, which, almost from its inception, has used its intelligence service (the Mossad) to assassinate people on foreign soil with any violence or terror it considers necessary for its ends."

Terrorism has been the hallmark of Israeli leaders, including Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir, Ehud Barak, Benjamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon, amongst others. The massacres, including Deir Yassin, Doueima, Safsaf, Tantura, amongst scores of others, and war crimes that they have orchestrated would take volumes to relate.

Assassination of Palestinian leaders and intellectuals, in Europe and the Middle East has gone on for years. Fathi Shikaki was assassinated in Malta in 1995 on the orders of Yitzhak Rabin. The role of Ehud Barak, dressed as an Arab woman, in the assassination of three Palestinian leaders, including the poet Kemal Nasser, in 1973 in Beirut, must not be forgotten.

Israeli assassination is not limited to Palestinians but includes the 1944 assassination of the British minister Lord Moyne in Cairo as planned by Yitzhak Shamir.

A horrible crime was committed in the assassination of the Swedish nobleman, Count Folke Bernadotte, a UN mediator, on Sept. 17, 1948, in Jerusalem, on the orders of Yitzhak Shamir, who later became prime minister of Israel. Count Bernadotte's sin was his recommendation, as the UN mediator, that Palestinian refugees who were driven out from their homes by Israel should be allowed to return to their homes. This recommendation was the substance of the UN resolution 194, on Dec. 11, 1948, stipulating the right of return for the Palestinian refugees as soon as possible.

Israeli use of chemical weapons is also on record in the botched attempt to assassinate Khalid Meshal, a Hamas leader, in Amman in 1997, on the orders of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The first act of air piracy in the history of civil aviation was carried out by Israel in 1954, when a civilian Syrian airliner was forced down in Tel Aviv and its passengers and crew held hostage, despite international condemnation.

The first act of shooting down a civilian airliner was deliberately carried out by Israel when a Libyan airliner was shot down by Israeli jet fighters over Sinai in February 1973, on the orders of Israeli prime minister Golda Meir, killing 107 of its passengers and its entire French crew.

Israeli terror was not restricted to Palestinians, Arabs and Europeans but included its own closest supporter and ally, the United States. In 1954, Israeli secret agents bombed the U.S. diplomatic centres in Cairo and Alexandria (known as the Lavon Affair), in an attempt to put the blame on the Egyptians. Israel later honoured the perpetrator, Marcello Ninio.

In June 1967, Israeli forces attacked the U.S. spy ship USS Liberty, and strafed rescue boats, killing 35 and injuring 170 U.S. servicemen, in an attempt to conceal its own secret communications, and again tried to blame it on the Egyptians. To this day, incredible as it may seem, the U.S. Congress refuses to hold an inquiry into this crime, as requested by the surviving crew. Needless to say, no sanctions were imposed or calls to extradite the perpetrators were made.

Zionist terror did not spare Jews. In 1940, Menachem Begin's Irgun Zwei Leumi terrorist gang bombed the ship Patria in Haifa harbor, killing 240 Jewish refugees, so as to put the blame on the British for political gain.

In 1950-1951, Israeli agents were dispatched to Iraq where they tossed hand grenades into the crowded Massauda Shem-Tov synagogue, causing numerous deaths, in order to blame it on the Iraqis and encourage reluctant Iraqi Jews to emigrate to Israel.

The late Canadian historian Frank Epp, then president of Grebel college of the University of Waterloo, wrote: "It is true that terrorist acts have been perpetrated by people identified as Palestinians. But there is another terrorism which is more vicious and brutal, that of dispossession and displacement forced upon the Palestinians. However, terrorism meted out by the Palestinians, regrettable as it is, is minute by comparison with that which has been inflicted on them. The mass media have failed to make this point adequately."

The tragedy for the Jewish people of Israel, in the crimes that are committed in their name, is highlighted in the statement made by the noted British historian Arnold Toynbee, who stated in a 1961 lecture at McGill University to a largely Jewish audience: "The Jewish treatment of the Arabs in 1948 was as morally indefensible as the slaughter by the Nazis of six million Jews . . . The most tragic thing in human life is when people who have suffered impose suffering in their turn."

The Palestinian people today are calling for a modicum of justice. For without this, there will be no peace for Arab or Jew in the Middle East.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

See, the main organizations that were used to form israel's army, state, and government were terrorists using the same methods as the palestinians today - killing innocents like planting bombs on markets. So stop pretending that israel was never hostile to arabs

[ungovernable]

And if you still pretend that defenseless palestinians are not being massacred after reading that, you're a dumbass:

http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2010/ ... -massacre/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... llegations

also the flotilla of humanitarian aid for palestine that was attacked by israel army without a reason is probably not "defenseless" in your book....

[Random Person From There]

Once again lies lies lies, hypocrisy and denial of what you said. Expected it. I am not even going to debunk all your lies and bullshit since you do that all the time.

Yes you are a zionist. Being zionist means supporting the state of israel. You support it by wasting your energy writing a fucking book on how we should NOT fight against israel and we should NOT support palestine. You even brought up some zionist arguments from a zionist website. You keep argueing that the war is positive and same thing for the occupation of palestine. Starting from now i will always call you zionist. And i'm not even talking about your stupid arguments like "if you want palestine to get back their land they had before the invasion then you support borders" ....

Yes, a Zionist that wants to abolish all states including Israel. Whew. I wrote a book saying that both Israel and Palestine are not our allies and should not be suported. It was a single Zionist source that I even claimed was "weird but interesting", but nevertheless it held some water until you prove it wrong, be it Zionist or not proves nothing. Anything pro-Israeli is Zionist, but anything pro-Palestine is neutral and true, nice. Oh and furthermore, fuck Israel. Idiot.

Yeah, "By the way, there is a big sign of peace on the banner of this website", well let me ask you this: Do you support a violent bloody revolution, reformism, or Pacifism then?

We're not talking about a revolution, we're talking about a military conflict between two states, and you pretend that fighting against it is a waste of time. Not only you think it's useless, but you also waste your time fighting against those who defend palestine and fight against war, just like you proved it on this topic. Why the fuck did you join a website where one of the three main logo is a peace sign, meaning you should be against palestine occupation ?

It's a military conflict between two states, that being it, then we have nothing to do with either of them. Wow so if there's a peace sign on an Anarchist website then I must be a Pacifist to participate? Lovely argument there, Ungovernable. Now, are you a Pacifist or not? The peace sign being there then we must be against the ongoing war, not only the occupation of Palestine.

By the way, fake anarchist wasn't an insult it's a fact, someone who act like you and support the things you do isn't even close to be an anarchist. At best, you're an anarcho-zionist.

Anarcho-Zionist even though I do not support Israel, want Israel to be abolished, and call its actions crimes against humanity. Lovely, your arguments plainly SUCK.

They chose to use suicide bombing, they can always buy a cheaper Kalashnikov or get some free ones from Iran or Syria. Oh and that suicide bombing is targeted at innocent people, which is in your case: Genocide.

once again you make yourself look like a fucking idiot.

Food and water can't even enter the country and you think that it's easy for them to get kalashnikovs hahahaha you're the biggest clown on earth. If they could get them they would do it.

Dude, I was giving an example, it's not my fault if you're too stupid and take everything in a literal sense. It could be anything not related to suicide, it is not restricted to Kalashnikovs, it could be pipe bombs, TNT, etc. (Now I bet he's going to claim that I support people using pipe bombs against innocents)

As for your zionist argument about suicide bombing, yeah you are right this image proves that Palestine is doing a genocide on israel, look how they are killing everyone and stealing their land!!

Oh so going out with bombs strapped around your body and bombing hotels, homes, and busy streets filled with Jews for only one goal: to kill an ethnicity, is absolutely NOT genocide by your standards.


hahahahahaha who's making a genocide ?? right... the palestinians[/quote]
Did I say that the Israelis are not making a genocide too? So please, for the sake of my temper and fucking humanity, STOP PUTTING UP STRAWMEN AND WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

and i suppose that palestinians killed by israel were not innocent, they were bad terrorists, blame them for fighting back to defend their families and their land !!!!

Another strawman? Do you really expect an answer for such a sham argument? Well, no the majority are most likely innocents or protesters rather than terrorists never claimed they were terrorists.

Your argument is worse than your comrades from the Jewish Defense League argument.... Even them can do better than you.

Yes, and by the degree and amount of ass whooping yer getting it seems you're being ownt badly enough to start calling me a Zionist for some reason although I oppose Zionism and Israel.

Let's blame the whole palestinian people for the acts of a minority of terrorists..... Just like the far-right is doing !!! Soon you are going to pretend that all palestinians are terrorists that's why they deserve occupation

Soon I'm going to pretend that all Palestinians are terrorists that's why they deserve occupation? What? Another strawman I see? Typical Ungovernable. Build some more strawmen.

GOGOGOGOGOOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOOGOGOGOGOGO

Look i will even help you, i found you a source from your Zionist comrade quoting some bullshit similar to what you have posted earlier, they say that 75% of the palestinians support suicide bombing. Look, you have the proof that they're all terrorists, thanks to your zionist source!!! Now let's send the bombs.
http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/s ... c_0049.htm
"a substantial majority (76.1%) support suicidal attacks" - Zionist Website

Ooh, look at that: Yesterday the military wing of the Hamas, Izz al-Din al-Qassam, claimed responsibility for Friday night's bombing outside a Tel Aviv discotheque, which took the lives of 20 young Israelis. The suicide bomber was identified as 22-year-old Saeed Hotary, a Jordanian who had been living in Kalkilya. Of course that's not a genocide.
But seriously ungovernable, will you stop it with those sham arguments and strawmen? I do not remember ever giving you a source from that website (http://www.israelinsider.com), have I now? Obviously not.

Here you go, fellow Ungovernable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

"1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.[1] (Basically all that you do)
2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2] (Basically all that you do)
3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments — thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical. (calling me a Zionist, fake Anarchist, etc. etc.)
5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
3. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position."

There you go, now start replying with actual arguments or . Kthxbai.

[Random Person From There]

Is/was there a genocide in Palestine?

I commemorated Holocaust Memorial Day with survivor Dr Hajo Meyer and some other Jewish friends after a talk at Goldsmith University last week. It is now clear to me that Palestinians have many common experiences with the survivors of the Holocaust.

Meyer's imprisonment in the ghetto and ordeal at checkpoints is a stereotypical image in occupied Palestine. I was amazed to hear him admit that the Palestinians' suffering is close to those who endured the Holocaust. I was also amazed because I heard it not from a Palestinian, but from a Jewish man who has suffered a lot.

For a long time, it has been widely argued that genocide has not been committed in Palestine. While some "left-leaning" media outlets say there was genocide, one that is still in progress, the Israeli narrative rejects the use of this term for the Palestinian experience. Without doubt, the Germans perpetrated genocide against the Jews in WWII. Around 6 million Jews were killed across Europe in an act that can never be tolerated by humanity. It is also a well known fact, but rarely mentioned, that a total of over 50 million people, were either murdered or died from disease and starvation.

There have, however, been genocides against many other people, such as the American Indians, the Armenians and the South Africans, which must also be remembered. Unlike the Holocaust, most of these genocides are not as focused on. Surely the fact that genocide has occurred must be condemned no matter who were the victims. Indeed, this seems to be the feeling of many Holocaust survivors themselves. They believe it is crucial to recognize, condemn and fight genocides wherever they are happening, no matter whether it involves a few thousand or millions.

The core question here is: are the Palestinians suffering a genocide perpetrated by the government of Israel? (as many people believe). Has Israel attempted to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their land? Is the term genocide legally applicable? Readers must make their own judgment.

In 1944, Polish-Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin coined the word "genocide" by combining "geno," from the Greek word for race or tribe, with "cide" from the Latin word for killing. He proposed that genocide consists of "a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves."

Has this been happening in Palestine? According to the history of the founding of Israel, thousands of violent actions have been committed against one group of people: Palestinians. More than 535 villages were destroyed, thousands of residents were massacred and around 800,000 people were driven from their homes by force or fear of force. This process is described by Israeli historian Ilan Pappé and others as ‘the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.' Since genocide is essentially the annihilation of a group, surely this is genocide.

On Dec. 9, 1948, the United Nations approved the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. This convention established "genocide" as an international crime, which signatory nations "undertake to prevent and punish." It defines genocide this way: Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group:

Killing members of the group:
In 1948, thousands of Palestinians were exterminated by terrorist Jewish groups like the Stern, Haganah and Irgun. Other villagers were told to leave or they would be killed. The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948. More than 100 villagers, including women and children, were annihilated. Some were shot with live ammunition, while others burned to death as rockets rained down on the village. Prisoners were killed after being paraded through the streets in occupied Jerusalem; and it didn't stop in 1948. In 1956, a massacre of 500 villagers took place in Khan Younis in the middle of the Gaza Strip; others killed were Egyptians, who were policing the area at that time.

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group:
The deadly siege in Gaza could easily be considered genocide according to this description. Bodily harm has been caused, not only during the siege or the last invasion (December 2008/January 2009), but since the beginning of the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

The overwhelming majority of the victims have been civilians, whereas only a small minority were resistance fighters. Some international agencies claim that 93 percent of those victimized were civilian, while only 7% were resistance fighters. (See the report, "Failing Gaza.")

Organized and systematic attacks against civilians in Gaza are also part of the genocide. Several months before Operation Cast Lead, an Israeli minister even used the term "holocaust" to describe what was planned for the citizens of Gaza. On Feb. 28, 2008, the Guardian, BBC and other British media outlets reported the story under the headline: "Israeli minister warns of Palestinian 'holocaust'." The Guardian reported that "an Israeli minister today warned of an increasingly bitter conflict in the Gaza Strip, saying the Palestinians could bring on themselves what he called a "holocaust".

"The more Qassam [rocket] fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," Matan Vilnai, Israel's deputy defense minister, told Army Radio.

"Shoah" is the Hebrew word normally reserved to refer to the Jewish Holocaust. It is rarely used in Israel outside discussions of the Nazi extermination of Jews during the second World War, and many Israelis are loath to countenance its use to describe other events.

Mental harm must also be considered. As pointed out in many UN agency reports, all Gazan children suffer mental and emotional problems. Stress and trauma make the children sick-minded due to constant fear. They have no opportunities for fun and joy, since the Israeli blockade even includes a ban on toys. It is not an exaggeration to say that a considerable number of the Gazan population are exhausted and mentally drained. They live with the constant realities of deprivation, war, restriction of freedom and death.

Inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part:
This has been happening for years, ever since the establishment of the state of Israel. Focusing on the Gaza Strip today, the siege has impacted every aspect of life. Factories have stopped operating and food just trickles in. In addition, people have no freedom of movement beyond their "concentration camp," with just two gates that open irregularly.

The Israeli blockade on exports and on all but humanitarian imports has forced 98 percent of Gaza's industry to close. Around 1.5 million Palestinians live in just 360 square kms., (139 square miles). More than three-quarters of the residents are refugees whose families were driven from their land, in what is now Israel, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

The remaining two characteristics of what constitutes genocide include: imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group and transferring children of the group to another group. These remaining two characteristics were most evident in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and the 1967 war.


also see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic ... _Palestine
http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/112608Lendman.shtml
http://sites.google.com/site/palestiniangenocide/
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6374.shtml

That's one helluva strawman dude, must've taken ages to build it. I'll be using the Strawman outline against you from now on:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.[1]
2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]
3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments — thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
3. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

There you go, highlighted for you.

[ungovernable]

See, again you are being a fucking hypocrite, you are lying and pretending you never said what you said. Typically zionist.

It's very boring to debate with you, maybe you should consult a doctor for alzailhmer because you forget what you have said each time i debunk your arguments.

Here is what you said

There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.

And Rwanda's case WAS A GENOCIDE WITH A DEFENCELESS SIDE unlike Palestine that is more than capable to defend itself as is seen.

Now please stop being an hypocrite and at least have the courage to assume what you said.

One post you say something, then i reply and prove you wrong, and then you pretend you never said that. That's so annoying. Dumbass dipshit out of argument.

Speaking of defencelessness :
http://www.perdana4peace.net/?p=124


By the way, good job ignoring my other posts, you are awarded the King Of Dodging Award Of 2011.


Here's another very good website with a lot of documentarions and pictures of the palestinian massacres/genocide:
http://www.palestinehistory.com/issues/ ... ssacre.htm

[SurgeryXdisaster]

And now back to our regular programming...





also check this blog:

http://inanities.org/2011/01/378/

haha Russia Today is great

[Random Person From There]

See, again you are being a fucking hypocrite, you are lying and pretending you never said what you said. Typically zionist.

It's very boring to debate with you, maybe you should consult a doctor for alzailhmer because you forget what you have said each time i debunk your arguments.

Here is what you said

There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.

And Rwanda's case WAS A GENOCIDE WITH A DEFENCELESS SIDE unlike Palestine that is more than capable to defend itself as is seen.

Now please stop being an hypocrite and at least have the courage to assume what you said.

Yes, I'm deeply sowwy fow devewoping ideas and chayngin' my opinions when it's the fiwst time I go anti-Pawestine and anti-Iswael. Sowwy mistew Ungovewnable mistew, pwease fowgive me? Even dow I did wite a discwaymah.

One post you say something, then i reply and prove you wrong, and then you pretend you never said that. That's so annoying. Dumbass dipshit out of argument.

Yes, proved me wrong ON WHAT EXACTLY? You only use strawmen and attack me calling me a Zionist for some reason and a fake Anarchist, all of your "arguments" have been refuted.

Speaking of defencelessness :
http://www.perdana4peace.net/?p=124

So now the Palestinians are defenceless? If I were Ungovernable here and had no argument I'd be saying "PRO-PALESTINE PROPAGANDA HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH YOU BELIEVE HAHHAHA" (yes I know, but I'm being comical) or something along those lines.

http://www.imemc.org/newswire?topic=palestinianattacks <----

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinia ... _on_Israel

By the way, good job ignoring my other posts, you are awarded the King Of Dodging Award Of 2011.

Your other posts had NOTHING to do with my own position, they were proving that massacres did indeed be committed by the Israelis against the Palestinians which I do not doubt.

Here's another very good website with a lot of documentarions and pictures of the palestinian massacres/genocide:
http://www.palestinehistory.com/issues/ ... ssacre.htm

Not denying it. Atrocious...

So all in all, you got no more arguments and you've been resorting to strawmen and attacking strawmen since we first started discussing this issue, and further you claim that I avoided your posts and/or arguments. It's funny at times, but sad when you actually believe in that. Remember, latest posts and arguments = latest position on the subject until further notice, do not resort to what I had said in my first post and take that as if I did not change my opinion, you'd sound more stupid.

Good news, if I stop replying or posting on here that will be due to one of two possible reasons: 1) I get banned, or 2) I get blown up after the recent threats by extremist groups and Osama Bin Laden himself that Churches, Catholic schools and Christian towns will be targeted with bombs. I study in a Catholic school, live in a Christian district, and work near a church. Fun.

[lil'apple]

still reading the topic and googling for some information about this and that i stubled upon this:

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp - breaking the silence-"Shovrim Shtika"

it's an organisation of ex-idf soldiers - idf is the israeli defence force - women and men who served in the army in the occupied areas, comitting and witnessing the atrocities against the palestinian people - and giving detailed reports about what happened and why they oppose the israeli goverment policy now.
like anarchists against the wall they are targetted by the state in a mccarthy-like campaign to prevent them spreading their message to the people in israel.

we all know that israel acts in a criminal and inhuman way and that the atrocities they comitted and still commit are at least a continuing ethnical cleansing - if not a genocide.
the israelis never overcame their fundamental fear of being a minority amongst the majority of palestinians and arabs.
the founding of israel was a plan of the western leading powers who were acting without thinking twice and in complete disregard of the real situation in the near east after wwII, what would have happened without the war?
criminals like dajan fought the british for almost a decade as a violent and ultra brutal small group, hagana, stern and all the other groups of "zionist warriors" always used terror to make up the lack of numbers and equipment they suffered. the sinking of the Patria 1940 and the later attempts to blame the arabs for undercover attacks of israeli forces on their own allies are the most cruel examples that they never gave up the terrorism - even after israel became a state.

researching the background of the "landshut" hijacking as a commando action of the german raf and the PFLP i found this:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monika_Haas

Zugelassen wurde zudem die Aussage eines im Libanon inhaftierten Mossad-Agenten, Said Slim, der angab, mit Haas den Transport durchgeführt zu haben. Slim sagte jedoch nie selbst vor einem deutschen Gericht aus, sondern wurde lediglich von BKA-Beamten im libanesischen Gefängnis vernommen

"admitted (to court in germany) was the statement of a mossad agent, said slim, who was detained in Lebanon. he admitted that he and monika haas (german raf member and wife of PFLP leader Zaki Helou) transported the weapons used in the hijacking (to mallorca, where the landshut was hijacked). slim never testified as witnesses at a german court, he was only interrogated by BKA-officials in the lebanese prison."
so... mossad and PFLP supporting the raf - and pushing the "israelfriendly" german democracy into the most serious inner crisis after wwII? and israel is still regarded as the sanctuary of the holocaust victims, still above all criticism?

many young israelis leave israel because of the draft for the army, draft resisting in israel is a easy way to get criminalized and stigmatisized in the crumbling society. orthodox extremists fight the "war of the cradle" against their own secular fellow citizens, refuse to defend the community but are always the first to demand tolerance for the religious groups playing the kingmaker at politics or the settlers movement claiming palestine property because of the thorah's erez israel - all the time claiming that the state israel "isn't right" - because the messiah hasn't come yet...
the declining numbers of jews living in northafrica and the near east aren't always the result of anti-semitism - israel encourages them to immigrate or "buy's" them (like in somalia/eritrea 1984) out of the diaspora to make up numbers in a state that is unable to integrate them, causing massive social problems and forcing many men to serve in the army - most prominent example: the great number of falascha in the idf, brought to israel with Operation Moses (1984) and Operation Salomon (1991). young people with falascha background are the most prominent group in the israeli crime statistics too, many "born" israelis regard them as "n....ers" because of their african heritage and dark skin, their social problems already cause a small fascist movement to spread in israel...
i think it's not surprising that a society like the israeli society is very susceptible to compensate it's inner turmoil on the outside - my zionist mother will disinherit me - but i dare to risk the comparison with germany before 1933 - standing on already rotting feet, but brutally fencing with a keen blade.

it's not israels fault all alone - the interference of the arab nationalists and the growing extremism of "liberation" professionals taking over the struggle do their worst to complete the chaos in the middle east and give the criminal hardliners in israel the "justification" for their atrocities against the palestinians.

bit short on time now i'll stop my raving, sorry, but like some others who gave statements i'm somehow affected personally, because of my families background - and the shame i feel facing the slaughter committed in "israels" name...
critiques please - or opinions

[JackNegativity]

the recent threats by extremist groups and Osama Bin Laden himself that Churches, Catholic schools and Christian towns will be targeted with bombs

Who told you this?

[ungovernable]

See, you're being a fucking hypocrite again and denying everything. Your whole message concerned the fact that you supposedly never pretended that there is no genocide in palestine

I proved you wrong by quoting you:
Random Hypocrite From There wrote: There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.

and now that i proved you wrong aand demonstrated that you are a fucking hypocrite, you didn't even answer me except posting childish images, making fun of me, being hypocrite, and acting like a fucking moron

Yes, proved me wrong ON WHAT EXACTLY?

See above, zionist.

all of your "arguments" have been refuted.

None of my arguments have been refuted, except maybe in your zionist alzhaimer brain.

So now the Palestinians are defenceless? If I were Ungovernable here and had no argument I'd be saying "PRO-PALESTINE PROPAGANDA HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH YOU BELIEVE HAHHAHA" (yes I know, but I'm being comical) or something along those lines.

Of course the palestinians are defenceless, dumbass.

When you resort to suicide bombing because you have nothing else to defend yourself, thats because you are desperate and defenceless

Palestinian army was annihilated, most of the hamas members are dead, and by the way most of these rocket launchers they are using are HOME MADE, dumbass.

Using cocktail molotovs and home made rockets against tanks and against a nation that got helicopters, top-of-the-line US weapons, nukes and missiles..... Is definatly what i would call defenceless.

You probably didn't even read that article i posted

And anyway, of course, palestinians are to blame ONCE AGAIN because they fought back. Palestinian bastards, they should just stop fighting back and wait until everyone is killed.



The only person with weapons are the terrorists but i'm not defending them. Unlike you i can make the difference between palestinian people and terrorists, but you can't --> typical zionism

Dude, the students during the infidada fought with slapshots and by THROWING ROCKS AT SOLDIERS ARMED WITH M16 AND TANKS...... Yes, this is what i call defenceless.

Your other posts had NOTHING to do with my own position, they were proving that massacres did indeed be committed by the Israelis against the Palestinians which I do not doubt.

Liar.

Here's the proof that you deny massacres on palestine:

[b]

There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.[/b]

I have to quote you each time to prove you wrong because you deny everything. That's zionism syndrom. You do something then you pretend it never happenned.

You denied that israel used terrorism against palestinian and you keep blaming palestinians for using terorism so that's why i posted a text explaining that israel is founded on terrorism and that they used terrorism even back in 1948. YOU IGNORED THAT POST even if it was related to what you said.

Here's another very good website with a lot of documentarions and pictures of the palestinian massacres/genocide:
http://www.palestinehistory.com/issues/ ... ssacre.htm

Not denying it. Atrocious...

Yes you denied it here's the proof:
[b]

There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.[/b]

Not only you deny it but you also blame palestinian from doing everything while israel never did anything

here's what you said
- You pretend that palestinian started the war (while the war started after israel stolen their land and arabs helped palestinians to fight back) note: you took that from a zionist website
- You pretend that israel never used terrorist attack, only palestinians did
- You pretend that nobody have to help palestine because they can fight back with their home-made bombs and home-made rocket launchers
- You pretend that there is no MASSACRE and no genocide in palestine
- You pretend that palestinian target civilians while israel never killed innocents
- You pretend that israel gave back all the lands their army invaded (again, you took that part from a zionist website)
- etc...

But once again you will just pretend that you never said that and you will deny everything.... Or you will say that you already answered or that my arguments have been refuted, which is false again.

So all in all, you got no more arguments and you've been resorting to strawmen and attacking strawmen since we first started discussing this issue

Hahahaha i'm not the one that has absolutly no arguments and is so much desperate that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

You're so desperate, you can't prove that israel is innocent and that the palestinian are wrong so since you can't prove that the palestinians are wrong with REAL arguments you are not trying to prove that the war is right with shitty arguments like the one in my signature.

and further you claim that I avoided your posts and/or arguments.

You did, and i proved it again in this post.

Oh and also, i'm still waiting for you to answer this:

Let's stop going protest against G8/G20/WTO reunions because it's full of alter-mondialist and reformists
Let's stop fighting for the liberation of political prisonners because it's supporting the system
Let's stop fighting against illegitimate arrestations except for arrested anarchists
Let's stop fighting against all wars since we're apparently supposed to not care.
Let's stop supporting workers on strike
Let's stop supporting workers union in anti-syndicalist companies like wal-mart or coca-cola
Let's stop going to anti-government protests because it's full of people wanting a better government instead of no government at all
Let's just stop fighting for anything until there is a protest full of anarchists with the only objective of fighting for anarchy. Let's just be lazy, selfish, egoist, elitist and sectarian. Let's all be like you. WHAT A FUCKING JOKE.

I asked you to answer it 4 times but you keep pretending that you already answered me, but you never answered. If you already answered then prove it and copy paste your answer.

do not resort to what I had said in my first post and take that as if I did not change my opinion, you'd sound more stupid.

.............And then you pretend i never proved you wrong.... fucking hypocrisy

Good news, if I stop replying or posting on here that will be due to one of two possible reasons: 1) I get banned, or 2) I get blown up after the recent threats by extremist groups and Osama Bin Laden himself that Churches, Catholic schools and Christian towns will be targeted with bombs. I study in a Catholic school, live in a Christian district, and work near a church. Fun.

Typical zionist paranoia.

Who told you this?

Probably another one of his zionist news source.

I also never heard of that and can't find an article on that, but it's nothing news, he's always bringing up bullshit without being able to prove it

[Random Person From There]

See, you're being a fucking hypocrite again and denying everything. Your whole message concerned the fact that you supposedly never pretended that there is no genocide in palestine

I proved you wrong by quoting you:
Random Hypocrite From There wrote: There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.

and now that i proved you wrong aand demonstrated that you are a fucking hypocrite, you didn't even answer me except posting childish images, making fun of me, being hypocrite, and acting like a fucking moron

The scarecrow/strawman image was directed at your first "argument" which was a strawman argument, you attacked me and claimed that I was a Zionist and argued as if I were one. If you cannot understand that then it is not my problem if you're an idiot.

Oh and here was my reply to that: Yes, I'm deeply sowwy fow devewoping ideas and chayngin' my opinions when it's the fiwst time I go anti-Pawestine and anti-Iswael. Sowwy mistew Ungovewnable mistew, pwease fowgive me? Even dow I did wite a discwaymah.

Didn't understand that either? Aw too bad. Let me translate: "Yes, I'm deeply sorry for developing ideas and changing my opinions when it is the first time I go anti-Palestine and anti-Israel. Sorry mister Ungovernable, please forgive me? Even though I did write a disclaimer."

Sad that you cannot even read or interpret simple sentences that a 2 year old can comprehend (the way I put it for you, and you did not even understand that)

Yes, proved me wrong ON WHAT EXACTLY?

See above, zionist.

What is that? Another strawman even though you proved shit? Here you go, nice construct :

all of your "arguments" have been refuted.

None of my arguments have been refuted, except maybe in your zionist alzhaimer brain.

Look a few pages back, all your arguments have been refuted with sources and others till you ended up saying "I will not post anymore" 2-3 times so far, where you then started resorting to strawman arguments. As in here, so: "4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical."

So now the Palestinians are defenceless? If I were Ungovernable here and had no argument I'd be saying "PRO-PALESTINE PROPAGANDA HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH YOU BELIEVE HAHHAHA" (yes I know, but I'm being comical) or something along those lines.

Of course the palestinians are defenceless, dumbass.

When you resort to suicide bombing because you have nothing else to defend yourself, thats because you are desperate and defenceless

Palestinian army was annihilated, most of the hamas members are dead, and by the way most of these rocket launchers they are using are HOME MADE, dumbass.

HEAR HEAR, home-made rocket launchers equals being defenseless! Oh and what the fuck does having home-made rockets have anything to do with ANYTHING? Don't change the subject and defend your position that "Palestinians are defenseless although they have rockets, bombs, and weapons"

Using cocktail molotovs and home made rockets against tanks and against a nation that got helicopters, top-of-the-line US weapons, nukes and missiles..... Is definatly what i would call defenceless.

Defenceless: 1. Lacking protection or support
2. Lacking weapons for self-defence
3. Having no protecting or concealing cover
4. Without defence

So what you are saying is that having Molotovs, home-made rockets, RPGs (actual, not home-made), ability to commit suicide and kill innocents, having weapons, having mortars, is being definately defenseless... You.. Oh my.../

I hope you do not call THAT an argument. Wow.

You probably didn't even read that article i posted

And anyway, of course, palestinians are to blame ONCE AGAIN because they fought back. Palestinian bastards, they should just stop fighting back and wait until everyone is killed.

I did read it, had nothing to do with my position and you were, as always ATTACKING A STRAWMAN, trying to refute something I do not support nor even said it did not happen. It was talking about massacres and killings done by Israel, which I do not doubt happened. And here I'll get his typical quoting of the genocides subject even though I took it back and refuted it numerous times yet he is persistent.

The only person with weapons are the terrorists but i'm not defending them. Unlike you i can make the difference between palestinian people and terrorists, but you can't --> typical zionism

Strawman after fucking strawman. Your typical answer here would be: "Oh so everyone who is armed is now considered a terrorist by you? Zionist." It is applicable, innit? Care to back this up?

Dude, the students during the infidada fought with slapshots and by THROWING ROCKS AT SOLDIERS ARMED WITH M16 AND TANKS...... Yes, this is what i call defenceless.

What the fuck are you going on about? I pointed you to thousands, (8000) or so rockets fired into Israel and you claim that the Intifada and using rocks? WHO THE FUCK WAS TALKING ABOUT THE INTIFADA? WHAT THE FUCK HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING? YOU FUCKING FAIL AT ARGUING AND DEBATING.

At first he was like:
"Using cocktail molotovs and home made rockets against tanks and against a nation that got helicopters, top-of-the-line US weapons, nukes and missiles..... Is definatly what i would call defenceless."

But then he was like:
"Dude, the students during the infidada fought with slapshots and by THROWING ROCKS AT SOLDIERS ARMED WITH M16 AND TANKS...... Yes, this is what i call defenceless."

Did you manage to change your opinion and position in the same post, two sentences apart?

Your other posts had NOTHING to do with my own position, they were proving that massacres did indeed be committed by the Israelis against the Palestinians which I do not doubt.

Liar.

Here's the proof that you deny massacres on palestine:

[b]

There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.[/b]

I have to quote you each time to prove you wrong because you deny everything. That's zionism syndrom. You do something then you pretend it never happenned.

That was my very FIRST POST YOU IDIOT WHICH I LATER REFUTED AND TOOK BACK NUMEROUS TIMES BUT YOU DO NOT SEEM TO COMPRE-FUCKING-HEND, and you still resort to quoting and pestering me with it. Lack of arguments much?

You denied that israel used terrorism against palestinian and you keep blaming palestinians for using terorism so that's why i posted a text explaining that israel is founded on terrorism and that they used terrorism even back in 1948. YOU IGNORED THAT POST even if it was related to what you said.

God, if you exist, please, PLEASE GET THIS GUY A FUCKING BRAIN. I'll fucking go to church each Sunday!
First and foremost, that was from my VERY FIRST POST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD. OMFG.

Secondly, genocide/terrorism is being performed by BOTH sides, do not even fucking deny it.

Thirdly, I did not ignore it because it had NOTHING to do with what we were discussing 4 fucking pages later, and after my redrawal of my claim that genocide is not taking place. Wondering how we got from there to here? Check your posts then.
When you have been proved wrong and you have no more arguments, you either go forth attacking strawmen, or claim that this will be your last post and bla bla bla till you change the topic at hand.

Terrorism:
"The calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear"
See? Palestinians do that always, and so do Israelis. If you differentiate the people from the terrorists then you must differentiate by an ARMY and a people.

Here's another very good website with a lot of documentarions and pictures of the palestinian massacres/genocide:
http://www.palestinehistory.com/issues/ ... ssacre.htm

Not denying it. Atrocious...

Yes you denied it here's the proof:
[b]

There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.[/b]

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

Not only you deny it but you also blame palestinian from doing everything while israel never did anything[/quote]
You retarded fucking idiot, read the whole thread again and see that I claim that Israel did ATROCIOUS SHIT AND WAR CRIMES. Easily refutable arguments are all that you got?

here's what you said
- You pretend that palestinian started the war (while the war started after israel stolen their land and arabs helped palestinians to fight back) note: you took that from a zionist website.

Since you are a complete and utter fool, I will repost:

Did palestine provoke war on israel ? Did they start the hostility ? Who invaded who ? STUDY HISTORY, israel came here, stole their land, started the war, etc... Palestine DID NOTHING

Oh. My. Fucking. God. Here you go since you are a fucking idiot:
"The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would "fight for every inch of their country."1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews.2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee's spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . ."3

Husseini's prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.9

The British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine.10

Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem."

and

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_the_ ... _war_start

and

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/palestin ... eline.html
Where: "1920: The British started ruling Palestine.

1947: The British handed over the responsibility of solving the Zionist-Arab problem to the United Nations. The United Nations voted to divide Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. Jerusalem received an international status.

1948: Israel was declared as the first Jewish state on 14 May. The British left Palestine. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Egypt declared war on Israel.

1949: Israel and the Arab states agreed to armistice. Israel gained about 50% more territory than was originally allotted to it by the United Nations Partition Plan."

This is from a pro-Israel website, weird but alas interesting:
"The Arab nations initiated four wars against Israel:

* 1948 War of Independence
* 1956 Sinai War
* 1967 Six Day War
* 1973 Yom Kippur War

Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). (see Camp-David Accords). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

Anonymous quote:

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.
Think about it..."

Read it before criticizing the source and missing the point.

Fucking retarded rehab reject.

- You pretend that israel never used terrorist attack, only palestinians did

Do I have to even explain this to you for the 7547237346th time? But here you go ONCE AND FOR FUCKING ALL.

This is from the first post:

Blame israel.

Seriously, Israel are destroying their lives, making checkpoints everywhere, preventing humanitarian aid from entering the country, colonising their land, destroying their houses, destroying their olive plants, etc.... It's not surprising that they turn to the only people defending them and fighting for their cause. Israel created their own ennemies with their politics, just like the USA did.

I could blame Israel and I do.........

Every country is basically illegitimate for one reason or another and every country has/is committing crimes against humanity and killing lots of innocent people, be it direct or indirect.

I don't remember in the past 200+ years that some group of religious decided to take over a country and say it belongs to them because their religion said it, and started stealing their land. Israeli is a state that appeared from nowhere, not a country that invaded another.
Anarchists are atheist against religion, it is totally normal that they are against this mascarade when a group of religious steal land because some religious book said it was the promised land

More reason to oppose Israel.........

And even if they wanted to set islamist law in THEIR country, is it a fucking legitimate reason to invade them and bomb their country ? Is it a reason to tolerate war on palestine just because you dont agree with their ideas ?

No it is no legitimate reason, no war done by one state against another simply due to religious causes is legitimate.

Stop turning Palestine into a defenseless populace of sheep, they are able to defend themselves but it is the attacks and atrocities done by both sides (Hamas and Israel) that is affecting the populace as a whole. It is not only one side that is resulting in the deaths of thousands. Two sides are fighting and the populace is in the middle, Hamas being the popular choice chosen by the Palestinian people is killing them. Get it into your thick skull already.

And that's from just TWO posts, need more?

- You pretend that nobody have to help palestine because they can fight back with their home-made bombs and home-made rocket launchers

"home-made" bombs and "home-made" rocket launchers ARE WEAPONS YOU IDIOT. That means they AREN'T DEFENCELESS. Oh the idiocy, you even deny that they have any respectable and actual weapons....

- You pretend that there is no MASSACRE and no genocide in palestine

Read the whole thread and this post in particular, again, again, and again till you understand that I withdrew that claim in the following posts. Idiot.

- You pretend that palestinian target civilians while israel never killed innocents

WHAT THE FUCK? FUCKING STRAWMAN, I SAID ISRAEL NEVER KILLED INNOCENTS? QUOTE ME NOW. Fucking dumbfuck.

- You pretend that israel gave back all the lands their army invaded (again, you took that part from a zionist website)

OH GOD AL-FUCKING-MIGHTY IF YOU HAVE ANY SHRED OF DECENCY, PLEASE GIVE HIM THE FUCKING ABILITY TO READ. FUCK.
I QUOTED A FUCKING SOURCE WHICH I DID NOT EVEN FUCKING AGREE WITH OTHER THAN THE WARS MENTIONED AND CLAIMED THAT IT WAS ONLY INTERESTING WHAT THE JEWS THINK. HERE IT IS YOU FUCKING IDIOTIC RETARD:

This is from a pro-Israel website, weird but alas interesting:
"The Arab nations initiated four wars against Israel:

* 1948 War of Independence
* 1956 Sinai War
* 1967 Six Day War
* 1973 Yom Kippur War

Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). (see Camp-David Accords). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

Anonymous quote:

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.
Think about it..."

The parts in bold are what I can say are true and I can agree with and are BASED ON FACT NOT PRESUMPTIONS YOU RETARD.

- etc...

If your etc... is full of completely refutable, stupid, incoherent, strawman argument then SHUT THE FUCK UP and stop humiliating yourself.

But once again you will just pretend that you never said that and you will deny everything.... Or you will say that you already answered or that my arguments have been refuted, which is false again.

Oh idiot, read what I said in this thread and this post, funny to realize that I refuted EACH AND EVERY one of your single stupid "arguments" go look at the thread over again and find me a single one that I missed and I will reply now.

So all in all, you got no more arguments and you've been resorting to strawmen and attacking strawmen since we first started discussing this issue

Hahahaha i'm not the one that has absolutly no arguments and is so much desperate that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

Oh my. Oh my fucking god. Oh my fucking lord.

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself


YOU ARE THE DUMBEST FUCK I HAVE EVER TALKED TO.

You're so desperate, you can't prove that israel is innocent and that the palestinian are wrong so since you can't prove that the palestinians are wrong with REAL arguments you are not trying to prove that the war is right with shitty arguments like the one in my signature.

This guy got stumped on ONE WITHDRAWN SENTENCE and is still in a hangover. DO YOU FUCKING EXPECT ME TO ANSWER THE SAME QUESTION FORTY MILLION FUCKING TIMES OVER AND OVER?

and further you claim that I avoided your posts and/or arguments.

You did, and i proved it again in this post.

Oh and also, i'm still waiting for you to answer this:

Let's stop going protest against G8/G20/WTO reunions because it's full of alter-mondialist and reformists
Let's stop fighting for the liberation of political prisonners because it's supporting the system
Let's stop fighting against illegitimate arrestations except for arrested anarchists
Let's stop fighting against all wars since we're apparently supposed to not care.
Let's stop supporting workers on strike
Let's stop supporting workers union in anti-syndicalist companies like wal-mart or coca-cola
Let's stop going to anti-government protests because it's full of people wanting a better government instead of no government at all
Let's just stop fighting for anything until there is a protest full of anarchists with the only objective of fighting for anarchy. Let's just be lazy, selfish, egoist, elitist and sectarian. Let's all be like you. WHAT A FUCKING JOKE.

I asked you to answer it 4 times but you keep pretending that you already answered me, but you never answered. If you already answered then prove it and copy paste your answer.

1-

The jailed person is not a country, nor an organization, nor millions of people heading in the wrong direction. He's an individual, we can actually support him for doing so we will not be promoting a state based on religion, no, we would be giving him his right to freedom if he deserves it. Comparing an individual being arrested to millions of people attempting to found a state based on religion is not only stupid, but idiotic.

2- Same as above

The jailed person is not a country, nor an organization, nor millions of people heading in the wrong direction. He's an individual, we can actually support him for doing so we will not be promoting a state based on religion, no, we would be giving him his right to freedom if he deserves it. Comparing an individual being arrested to millions of people attempting to found a state based on religion is not only stupid, but idiotic.

3-

They are not supposed to fight against ALL wars, if that is the case then let us halt the Palestinians from defending themselves. Fighting against all forms of imperialism is something I can agree with, but only if done right and once and for all such as targeting the trunk instead of the branches.

ONE war will stop, MANY wars will still come.

4- In confusion about this after reading Jack's post on Anti-Unionism and Anti-Syndicalism, cannot form my opinion on this at the moment.

5- Same as above.

6- "Let's stop going to anti-government protests because it's full of people wanting a better government instead of no government at all."

Enlighten them instead of fighting with them and supporting their absolutely wrong cause.

I would attempt to question the protesters and make them actually tell me why they are in an anti-government protest when they clearly support a government.

7-

That is what needs to be had, a protest with Anarchists fighting for ANARCHY not some other petty cause that is not only counter-revolutionary, but also counter-productive.

Happy? Even though I do not know what the fuck those attacks of yours that you expect answers for some how hold any water against me?

do not resort to what I had said in my first post and take that as if I did not change my opinion, you'd sound more stupid.

.............And then you pretend i never proved you wrong.... fucking hypocrisy

... You never proved me wrong, I changed my opinion after thinking it over, your arguments have been merely strawmen and void arguments. While writing about this, I had been thinking over my position and altered a few points here and there according to what is right.

Good news, if I stop replying or posting on here that will be due to one of two possible reasons: 1) I get banned, or 2) I get blown up after the recent threats by extremist groups and Osama Bin Laden himself that Churches, Catholic schools and Christian towns will be targeted with bombs. I study in a Catholic school, live in a Christian district, and work near a church. Fun.

Typical zionist paranoia.

Zionist paranoia? The whole fucking country is an uproar because of the threats and you call it paranoia? Fucking stupid retard, got a big strawman to attack it seems.

Who told you this?

Probably another one of his zionist news source.


I also never heard of that and can't find an article on that, but it's nothing news, he's always bringing up bullshit without being able to prove it

I ALWAYS back up my claims, where you back shit and you always are being proved wrong. Now the country is an uproar as I had said, ask anyone living in Lebanon and he will tell you, I will say nothing.

Hm, seems that it was denied by the Patriarchate, people seem to not trust them and think they're merely trying to calm things down.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsD ... enDocument

Ungovernable, you're the most idiotic person attempting to form an argument I have ever seen in my life, and that's something knowing that I have seen some of the worst, but you sure topped them all.

[Anxiety69]

is it just me or does FIRE IN CAIRO by The Cure come to mind when hearing about the chaos there?

[JesusCrust]

This threads getting overfilled, and quite quickly, so I hope this doesn't just slip away without any notice.

But meanwhile, in Cairo:

http://www.wsm.ie/c/million-demonstrate ... mubarak-go

[JackNegativity]

I asked how you heard of this terrorist threat warning, really because these warnings usually come from a government source. Not saying it's true or false, just that it's news to me and it doesn't seem unreasonable that the government would put out these warnings (as it has in the past, and nothing I can recall has ever come of them after 9-11) to scare us into believing that we're being oppressed for our own protection.


Some questions that have occured to me while reading this long, drawn-out name-calling match are:

If Palestinians really are the aggressors or (at the very least) capable of defending themselves against the Israeli armed forces (making it a "proper" war, and not attempted genocide)--why is there a growing number of Israeli citizens (people who actually live there to witness what's happening) who oppose Israel's actions and are speaking out in defense of the Palestinians?

Is it unreasonable to assume that being as Israel already gets funding and weapons from their big brother USA, they would also follow in America's greedy genocidal footsteps in the quest for land and power?

Since zionism is basically the jewish form of supremecy (which as far as i've seen is universally opposed by anarchists), is it really safe to be using information from zionist websites to argue against the palestinians? Wouldn't that be equivilent to using information from neo-nazi or revisionist websites to argue against holocaust survivors?

[JackNegativity]

In reading all this it's easy to forget the thread is about Cairo.

[JesusCrust]

Wait terrorist threat? Sorry, I don't feel like reading pages of arguments. Whats that about Jack?

[smelly k]

at the end of the day no matter any of your political beliefs you seem to be forgetting folk in cairo just want a fair deal. they don't seem to be following any particular political agenda. they just wanna be able to feed their kids. what saddens me is that we all know some jumped up moron is gonna take power and balls up everyone's life, except his mates of course, who i expect will all get richer. it's the way of the world. is anyone trying to encourage the egyptians or tunisians to govern themselves. we hear of future voting already sorted yet few, if any, worth voting for. encourage self government. do any in this discussion even try to live anarchy. do you pay council tax then fight the law at demonstrations? is that anarchy. do you lead by example? or do you pay your taxes and live by narrow minded laws. nothing will change in egypt while the countries they respect and wish to emulate are just as corrupt and populated by folk just as powerless. and too scared to take the power of their own lives into their own hands.

[ungovernable]

Oh and here was my reply to that: Yes, I'm deeply sowwy fow devewoping ideas and chayngin' my opinions when it's the fiwst time I go anti-Pawestine and anti-Iswael. Sowwy mistew Ungovewnable mistew, pwease fowgive me? Even dow I did wite a discwaymah.

That's what you call a reply, dumbfuck ?

So let's reiterate:
- You pretended you never said palestine wasn't a genocide
- i proved you wrong by answering by a quote of you saying that palestine isn't a genocide
- you answer some meaningless off-topic bullshit and you call that a "reply"

Didn't understand that either? Aw too bad. Let me translate: "Yes, I'm deeply sorry for developing ideas and changing my opinions when it is the first time I go anti-Palestine and anti-Israel. Sorry mister Ungovernable, please forgive me? Even though I did write a disclaimer."

You keep changing your mind because i prove you wrong and your opinions are full of flaws, you don't know shit of what you are talking about and you get your arguments from zionist website. And you are not anti-israel since you are against me because i say that the stolen lands should be given back to palestine.

If you are anti-zionist and anti-israel then please say clearly that:
1) stolen lands should be given back to palestine without conditions
2) the state of israel is illegitimate and should be abolished
3) that the palestinians are free to have their own nation recognized internationally like other countries even if you're against state, you can't accept that lands are being stolen for religious reasons
4) that the palestnians are free to have their own nation even if you don't agree with their ideas
5) that, as an anarchist, you are against state so you are against palestinian state but as you pretend to be anti-israel you feel that israel shouldnt exist and the lands should be given back to palestine
6) that the occupation isn't helping palestinians as you pretended early
7) Since the occupation isn't helping palestine, and since the land was stolen, the palestinians have the right to fight back and can't be blamed

so far, you declared the exact opposite to that

Sad that you cannot even read or interpret simple sentences that a 2 year old can comprehend (the way I put it for you, and you did not even understand that)

What i understand, and what a 2 years old kid can also understand, is that your childish answer doesn't have anything related to the original subject we were discussing. We were talking that you declared there is no genocide on palestine, then you tell me you never said that. You didn't say that you changed your mind, you said THAT YOU NEVER SAID IT. That's a denial of facts. Typical zionism.

Look a few pages back, all your arguments have been refuted with sources

You mean your zionist sources ?

Tell me exactly on what you have proven me wrong. You THINK you have proven me wrong, but you didn't.

As in here, so: "4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical."

So far everything you said i invented something that you never said, i proved you wrong by quoting you. (see above for a proof)

HEAR HEAR, home-made rocket launchers equals being defenseless! Oh and what the fuck does having home-made rockets have anything to do with ANYTHING? Don't change the subject and defend your position that "Palestinians are defenseless although they have rockets, bombs, and weapons"

Hey dumbfuck, the rwandas were also able to build home-made rocket launchers and suicide bombs, but you still pretend they were defenceless.

Listen, when the israeli army kills unarmed citizens THIS IS CALLED DEFENCELESS
When israeli intifada teenagers throw rocks at army that fire back with tanks and top-of-the-line war weapons THIS IS CALLED DEFENCELESS
When martyrs use suicide bombs because they have nothing else to fight with THIS IS CALLED DEFENCELESS

Being able to defend yourself means that you have the equivalent force to resist the enemy. i.e. you have tanks to fight against the enemy's tanks, you have an army to fight their army, weapons to fight against their weapons, missiles to fight against their missiles, etc...

So what you are saying is that having Molotovs, home-made rockets, RPGs (actual, not home-made), ability to commit suicide and kill innocents, having weapons, having mortars, is being definately defenseless... You.. Oh my.../

Against an army equipped with helicopters, tanks, planes, missiles, nukes, rockets, millions of soldiers, US support........ YES

And once again, you're talking about terrorists while i'm talking about palestinian innocents.

It was talking about massacres and killings done by Israel, which I do not doubt happened

Lies. Here's proof:
[quote=Random Liar From There]There's no fucking genocide nor massacre, both countries are attacking each other and are in a full-out fuckign total war. If Palestine had not and is not fighting and being massacred then THAT IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE.[/b][/quote]

Strawman after fucking strawman. Your typical answer here would be: "Oh so everyone who is armed is now considered a terrorist by you? Zionist." It is applicable, innit? Care to back this up?

Not all palestinian fighters are terrorists. They are considered as terrorist because palestinian state doesn't officially exist to most of countries, and their army isn't recognized, DUMBASS. The japenese suicide pilots were recognized as official fighters by the USA. Al-quaida isn't an official army, palestinian army is.

What the fuck are you going on about? I pointed you to thousands, (8000) or so rockets fired into Israel and you claim that the Intifada and using rocks? WHO THE FUCK WAS TALKING ABOUT THE INTIFADA? WHAT THE FUCK HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING? YOU FUCKING FAIL AT ARGUING AND DEBATING.

Intifada is part of the palestinian fight back against israel and you don't understand what's the link with our discussion ? YOU are the one who fail at arguing. I wouldn't even talk about failing at arguing if i were you, especially with the pro-war bullshit you posted earlier (see my signature)

Did you manage to change your opinion and position in the same post, two sentences apart?

OK LISTEN, FUCKING IDIOT INCAPABLE OF USING YOUR BRAIN:

TERRORISTS AREN'T THE ONLY ONES BEING KILLED IN THIS CONFLICT. INNOCENTS ARE ALSO MURDERED.

I'm talking about the kids in the infafa because they weren't using weapons AND THEY STILL GOT KILLED. That's what i call defenceless.
Also many people without any form of weapons were killed since 1948, i posted proofs all over the place of massacres and innocents being murdered, and i'm not talking about collateral damages I'M TALKING ABOUT FUCKING MASSACRES ON INNOCENTS

Then YOU started talking about people using rockets, so i answered by saying they're still defenceless because they are using home-made rockets against tanks.... THAT'S LIKE FIGHTING WITH A WATER PISTOL AGAINST A MACHINE GUN, they dont even have an army and theyre fighting against an army of millions of soldiers equipped with top-of-the-line technology

First and foremost, that was from my VERY FIRST POST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD. OMFG.

No, you said it again a couple of time after your post (it wasnt your first post btw, it's on the end of page 2, dumbfuck)

And even in the last posts you kept saying that israel never used terrorism, only the palestinians did

Secondly, genocide/terrorism is being performed by BOTH sides, do not even fucking deny it.

Genocide ? Is it israel disseapearing from this map ?


Ok listen fucking moron, since you don't have any brain i will explain again:

- Yes, some palestinian EXTREMISTS are racist and anti-semitist, yes they would want to commit a genocide against israelians (which they have FAILED to do so far). Those terrorists must be distinguised from the rest of the palestinian nation. Terrorists aren't palestine.
- The palestinian official palestine government is NOT anti-semitist and they DO NOT WANT TO COMMIT A GENOCIDE. They want ONE country where palestinians and israelis can live free with the same rights.
- Israel state want to see palestine disseapear, they don't recognize it as an official nation and they want to destroy it. They want to make a genocide (which they have SUCCESFULLY managed to do
- Israel's genocide is coming from the official state, not only from a minority of extremist. Palestine's "genocide" tentative comes from a minority of extremists. It isn't official politics of the state.
- You can say that the terrorists have TRYED to make a genocide, and failed, but you can't say that PALESTINE commited a genocide.

By the way the notion of "innocence" in israel is debatable. It is debatable that you are innocent even if you aren't part of israelian army. Israelians are colons, each citizen is playing a role in the colonisation of palestine - [b]especially the ones on the colonys israel have constructed near the palestinian borders. Those israelians CHOSEN to live there and CHOSEN to colonize palestine. It was the same thing during the colonisation of america, you couldn't be an innocent even if you were unarmed since you were still playing a role in the colonisation and the stealing of lands. I'm not sure wether or not i consider unarmed israelians as innocent, so i will not take a position, i'm just saying it is debatable and everyone is playing a role against palestine, so fighting against them is understandable - not saying it is right or not, just saying understandable - especially when we are talking about the israelians living in colonies near palestine. And those colonies near the borders are the one being targetted by palestinian rockets.

So, that's why palestinians are targetting any israelian, because they're all playing their role. That's why they're doing what you call a "genocide"[/b]

When you have been proved wrong and you have no more arguments, you either go forth attacking strawmen, or claim that this will be your last post and bla bla bla till you change the topic at hand.

When i said it would be my last post it was after a page full of arguments where all your "arguments" were refuted so don't pretend that i have nothing to answer, so far i have answered and refuted ALL of your arguments. You are the one who's got nothing more to say so you debate on the meaning of words like "defenceless" or "genocide" instead of talking about the true facts. Zionist King of avoidance and king of dodge award '2011'.

Terrorism:
"The calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear"
See? Palestinians do that always, and so do Israelis. If you differentiate the people from the terrorists then you must differentiate by an ARMY and a people.

This definition is not precise enough. Terrorism isn't something you can define in a few words.

So all attacks targetting civilians are terrorism ? Hmmm ok... So a civil war is terrorism ? Class war is terrorism ? You're an idiot.

If palestinian army was recognized officially, we couldn't call it terrorism. And it isn't recognized officially because the UN and USA doesn't want to.

You retarded fucking idiot, read the whole thread again and see that I claim that Israel did ATROCIOUS SHIT AND WAR CRIMES. Easily refutable arguments are all that you got?

Liar. You claimed over and over again that israelians did nothing but fight back against the evil arabs who started 4 wars against them. You even quoted a ZIONIST website saying "if israel put down the weapons it will disseapear and if palestine put down weapons everyone will live in peace"

Since you are a complete and utter fool, I will repost:
(blablabla)

HERE YOU GO AGAIN QUOTING ZIONIST PROPAGANDA FROM A ZIONIST WEBSITE. STOP POSTING THAT BULLSHIT ON ANARCHO-PUNK.NET

OK LISTEN FUCKING DUMBASS IT IS THE 397439479TH TIME I TRY TO EXPLAIN YOU

THE WAR STARTED AFTER ISRAEL STOLE LAND. IT'S CALLED FIGHTING BACK, IT'S NOT CALLED STARTING HOSTILITIES

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio ... 8Israel%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab% ... sraeli_War

THE JEWS HAS BEEN WANTING TO STEAL THIS LAND SINCE THE FUCKING 19TH CENTURY

"home-made" bombs and "home-made" rocket launchers ARE WEAPONS YOU IDIOT. That means they AREN'T DEFENCELESS. Oh the idiocy, you even deny that they have any respectable and actual weapons....

So if i get shot by a rocket fired from a tank because i threw a molotov cocktail at them, it means that i wasn't defenceless ?

You are totally incapable of putting the power relationship (not sure of the word, i mean comparing the force of the weapons) in your way of judging defencelessness

Hey dude, the rwandis wern't defenceless because they had knives to fight against Ak-47 !!!!

WHAT THE FUCK? FUCKING STRAWMAN, I SAID ISRAEL NEVER KILLED INNOCENTS? QUOTE ME NOW. Fucking dumbfuck.

You keep saying over and over again that palestinians have terrorists to it's a reason for the war and blablabla...

And by the way, since when fighting back makes you guilty ? If i attack you and kill your family, if you fight back you're not an innocent anymore ?

- You pretend that israel gave back all the lands their army invaded (again, you took that part from a zionist website)

OH GOD AL-FUCKING-MIGHTY IF YOU HAVE ANY SHRED OF DECENCY, PLEASE GIVE HIM THE FUCKING ABILITY TO READ. FUCK.

Wow you copy and paste something that you don't even understand and then i'm the one who needs to be able to read?
here's what you said:

After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO BE GIVEN THE ABILITY TO READ DUMBFUCK, that's exactly what i said in my last post

* 1948 War of Independence
* 1956 Sinai War
* 1967 Six Day War
* 1973 Yom Kippur War

GET A FUCKING BRAIN AND LEARN TO READ, study these wars instead of copy and paste ZIONIST PROPAGANDA and believing ZIONIST PROPAGANDA words for word WITHOUT EVEN QUSTIONNING IT. You believe this bullshit without even knowning it and then you wonder why i say you're a fake anarchist ?

THE 1948 WAR STARTED AFTER ISRAEL BUILT THEIR STATE ON STOLEN LANDS. ALL OTHER WARS ARE THE ARABS FIGHTING BACK

Dumbass, zionists are building an army of bloggers to post propaganda like this on the internet to brainwash idiots like you
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/israel-r ... t-websites
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... s-1.268393
The zionists even have a group (forgot how its called) on the internet, all members have a program on their computer that alert them when an anti-zionist post is posted on a notorious website and then the website is FLOODED by comments of zionists posting anti-arab bullshit... I saw it in action on a blog and then the blog author posted a new post explaining how all these comments (hundreds in a few hours) came from a zionist group that was alerted by the post

AND FOR THE LAST TIME, STOP POSTING ZIONIST PROPAGANDA HERE, THIS IS AN ANARCHIST WEBSITE IT IS NOT THE PLACE TO POST ZIONIST PROPAGANDA TAKEN FROM ZIONIST WEBSITE.

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.
Think about it..."

This is disgusting coming from an anarchist. You're a fucking zionist asshole. If palestinian stop fighting there will be no more nation of palestine and they will live a shitty life for the rest of their existence, everything they have will be destroyed, they will live behind a wall, with no food and no water, they will never see their olive plantations back, etc...

If your etc... is full of completely refutable, stupid, incoherent, strawman argument then SHUT THE FUCK UP and stop humiliating yourself.

You didn't refute a single thing.

Oh idiot, read what I said in this thread and this post, funny to realize that I refuted EACH AND EVERY one of your single stupid "arguments" go look at the thread over again and find me a single one that I missed and I will reply now.

You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.

Oh my. Oh my fucking god. Oh my fucking lord.

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself

HOW MANY FUCKING STRAWMEN DOING YOU CREATE AND ATTACK THAT I MUST REFUTE?
that he's down to getting his arguments from zionist website without even questionning it, believing that israel is innocent and is only defending himself


YOU ARE THE DUMBEST FUCK I HAVE EVER TALKED TO.

You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.
You didn't refute a single thing.

You're so desperate, you can't prove that israel is innocent and that the palestinian are wrong so since you can't prove that the palestinians are wrong with REAL arguments you are not trying to prove that the war is right with shitty arguments like the one in my signature.

This guy got stumped on ONE WITHDRAWN SENTENCE and is still in a hangover. DO YOU FUCKING EXPECT ME TO ANSWER THE SAME QUESTION FORTY MILLION FUCKING TIMES OVER AND OVER?

You keep answering that you changed your position but it's false. See a few quotes above, you posted zionist propaganda and you pretend that israel didn't start the war, you keep saying that the palestinian started hostilities so the israelians have the right to make war on them














You didn't answer a lot of questions i asked but i will still reply to your hypocrisy:

The jailed person is not a country, nor an organization, nor millions of people heading in the wrong direction. He's an individual, we can actually support him for doing so we will not be promoting a state based on religion, no, we would be giving him his right to freedom if he deserves it. Comparing an individual being arrested to millions of people attempting to found a state based on religion is not only stupid, but idiotic.

But you said that supporting the liberation of palestinians means supporting islamist since they are islamist.
So supporting the liberation of someone who is not anarchist means supporting the state.

2- Same as above

Same answer as above.

They are not supposed to fight against ALL wars, if that is the case then let us halt the Palestinians from defending themselves. Fighting against all forms of imperialism is something I can agree with, but only if done right and once and for all such as targeting the trunk instead of the branches.

You are really the king of idiocy. The most ridicule thing i ever heard.
You are pretending we should stop defending ourself if we really want to end war. ARE YOU A FUCKING HIPPY OR WHAT ? You are really the king of the dumbass on this forum.

Dude that's like saying in WW2 we should stop fighting against nazis to fight against war.

6- "Let's stop going to anti-government protests because it's full of people wanting a better government instead of no government at all."

Enlighten them instead of fighting with them and supporting their absolutely wrong cause.

I would attempt to question the protesters and make them actually tell me why they are in an anti-government protest when they clearly support a government.

I mean something like the anti-bush protests, it's full of people being against that government, but most of those people just want a liberal instead of a republican. But anarchists still support this kind of protests.
Following your stupid ideas, we should stop supporting those protests since most of the people want another government instead of no government at all. Just like the palestinians want a better country instead of no country at all.

That is what needs to be had, a protest with Anarchists fighting for ANARCHY not some other petty cause that is not only counter-revolutionary, but also counter-productive.

Oh ok so all protests are counter-revolutionary and counter-productive except protests of anarchists fighting for anarchy.
YOU ARE THE BIGGEST FUCKING IDIOTIC SECTARIAN ELITIST LAZY FUCKING DUMBASS I EVER SEEN CLAIMING TO BE AN ANARCHIST

You probably sit at home all day and all you can do is critize people for doing thing you think is counter-revolutionary

Tell me kid, when the fuck is the last time you saw a protests with ONLY anarchists fighting for anarchy ??? NEVER. I don't even remember a single exemple. I saw anarchists protests against fascism, anarchist protests against war, anarchist protests against bush government or sarkozy government, anarchist protests against globalization, anarchist protests against G8/G20, anarchists against X or X, anarchists in solidarity of X or X, but never anarchists fighting for anarchy...

You claimed the only thing we should support is anarchy, and that anarchists fighting against war or in solidarity of palestine are wrong because it's a waste of time. Well it's the same thing

Anyway, following your fucking stupid logical, we shouldnt even go to protests full of anarchists fighting for anarchy.
You say that NO PROTESTS AGAINST A WAR EVER SUCCESSFULLY ENDED A WAR so that's the reason why you think we shouldnt support those protests
Well, a protest of anarchists fighting for anarchy NEVER CHANGED A THING and it NEVER LED TO ANARCHISM... So it's useless, just like anti-war protests (following your stupid logical)

... You never proved me wrong, I changed my opinion after thinking it over, your arguments have been merely strawmen and void arguments. While writing about this, I had been thinking over my position and altered a few points here and there according to what is right.

Ahahahah fucking liar idiot, you changed your mind after reading my arguments WHAT A WEIRD COINCIDENCE.... You changed your mind on a dozen of points during this debate, your opinions are shitty and full of flaws, they can't stand up. I didn't change my arguments on a single point because i'm not an ignorant fuck who doesnt knows what he's talking about. Maybe if you prove me wrong on something i will change my mind, but you FAILED

Good news, if I stop replying or posting on here that will be due to one of two possible reasons: 1) I get banned, or 2) I get blown up after the recent threats by extremist groups and Osama Bin Laden himself that Churches, Catholic schools and Christian towns will be targeted with bombs. I study in a Catholic school, live in a Christian district, and work near a church. Fun.

Typical zionist paranoia.

Zionist paranoia? The whole fucking country is an uproar because of the threats and you call it paranoia? Fucking stupid retard, got a big strawman to attack it seems.

Failed to answer again.
Failed to answer again.
Failed to answer again.
Failed to answer again.
Failed to answer again.
Once again you failed to answer me. As usual.

Show us proofs where osama bin laden threatened to attack catholic schools and christian towns. You've probably read that bullshit on a zionist anti-arab website.

where you back shit and you always are being proved wrong

I'm still waiting for an example of at least ONE thing where you proven me wrong.

I ALWAYS back up my claims, where you back shit and you always are being proved wrong. Now the country is an uproar as I had said, ask anyone living in Lebanon and he will tell you, I will say nothing.

Hm, seems that it was denied by the Patriarchate, people seem to not trust them and think they're merely trying to calm things down.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsD ... enDocument

hahahahahahahahahahhh

This is just a fucking stupid rumour , i could call anyone and say HEY THERES A BOMB

You said that OSAMA BIN LADEN CLAIMED THAT HE WILL ATTACK SCHOOLS AND CHRISTIAN TOWN.... See, this guy is a pathetic liar, he start with something he heard on the internet and then he deform everything...

I'm still waiting for a reliable source where it says that Osama Bin Laden declared something, like you pretended. You are not backing up anything you claimed, you're just lying again.

This article doesn't even talk about osama bin laden or al-quaida fucking dumbass, and it doesn't say that Osama Bin Laden made official declarations on threads of bombing christian schools and towns.

It could just be a student that was mad at his professor and made a fake bomb alert call.

Ungovernable, you're the most idiotic person attempting to form an argument I have ever seen in my life, and that's something knowing that I have seen some of the worst, but you sure topped them all.

hahahaha see above, you just failed to form an argument and back up what you said, so shut the fuck up already.

Man, i have debated with zionists, i have debated with people from the jewish defense league, i have debated with islamist integrists, i have debated with people supporting jihad terrorism, i have debated with israelians..... But i can say without a doubt that you're even worse than all of them with your pseudo-arguments to justify a war and pretend it is good for the palestinians.... Coming from an anarchist i'm not too sure if this is discouraging, or just totally hilarious. One thing is sure : you're not an anarchist, you are a zionist pro-war sectarian elitist dumbass. And you're probably very young, seeing how stupid your opinions are and how you can't back your arguments full of flaws.

[smelly k]

as i read more i wonder what planet you live on. it's neither the isreali's nor palestinians fighting. it's the negative moron minority literally getting away with murder. it's the same in this country. you'd all rather spout bollocks at each other than living what you supposedly believe. i sincearly doubt the majority of folk in israel, palestine or egypt could give a fuck who owns the land or has the power. i expect they just want them to stop shooting folk, blowing folk up and charging too much fucking cash for food. so few are actually involved in it all. are you giving them power by believing in any side at all? they are all countries that look to us to show them how it's done. we show them anarchists that sound like they'd love to be in power themselves. is that what you want? cos you can fuck off. you ain't my boss, only i am. who's yours?