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PE discusses AP.net

Anything not related to music, politics, or punk goes in this forum!
Unserious discussions should go in the "off-topic" forum, NOT here.

Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 00:26

first post. i post tons at pe (under the name dave). first i wanna say-
1- i realize that opinions stated at the pe board in the name of ap.net arent shared by everyone here, or vice-versa.
2- there are obviously many sides to this discussion.
3- im not coming here to "take sides" or be a trolling dick. honestly i think its cool that this board exists.

that being said, a lot of the "drama" is based on people just being generally rude and not wanting to actually have a dialog. so, i decided to open an account and put my 2 cents in.

i used to be in a band that has an lp on pe, and while i dont personally have a problem with filesharing im glad dan sticks up for his bands. ive read his comments and while i dont think dans claiming to be an "authority on anarchy" he IS an authority when it comes to running a diy abel. hes been doing it since the early 80s; id imagine some of you werent born yet then. the guy loves punk music and has logged countless hours helping bands, and the label is way in debt (as id imagine almost every person running a label these days is). to imply that he's a "capitalist" is pretty silly. when he originally got mad it was because the person who initially came there from here was being, well, a dick about it.

as for the issue itself, ill just say this: anarchism is essentially about creating a non- hierchical alternative to the society we live in now, right? but to do that it also has to be SUSTAINABLE. people have kids, bills, etc. if you like bands help them out financially. its just mutual respect. they are, after all, LOSING money just existing almost acrtoss the board. and if you care about "the message" create an archive of the lyrics of the bands you can download here, or better yet include them in the files. and i dont buy the "its too tedious to contact bands" arguemnt. you know whats tedious? washing dishes for a year so you can afford to buy an amp and put in for a recording, or a van to go on tour with. use some common sense, of course its the right thing to do to ask someone if you distribute thier art.

anyways its against my nature to believe that "cooler heads will prevail" or whatever, but id like it if somebody proved me wrong. its a sad waste of all of our time and the work put into both sites to be shitty about this.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby ungovernable on 17/12/2009, 01:07

i used to be in a band that has an lp on pe

What's the name of your band ? We share tons of bands from Quebec @ QuebecUnderground.net, we might even already have your's, and since you are against file sharing we would be disgusted to support your band and your ideas so we will remove it ASAP.

he IS an authority when it comes to running a diy abel.

You fit the word "authority" and "anarcho-punk label" in the same phrase and you don't realize there's something wrong with all this?

to imply that he's a "capitalist" is pretty silly. when he originally got mad it was because the person who initially came there from here was being, well, a dick about it.

Sorry but either you didn't follow the story or you are a lying. We acted correctly until it started degenerating.

I registered on PE board to explain myself. We had a big debate (around 10 pages) where i was being insulted, called a thief, a fake anarchist, where peoples laughted at me anarcho-punk.net. During this whole debate i kept my calm and tryed to explain myself.

If that's what you call "being a dick" sorry but, fuck you.

This whole debate was now censored by Dan, "THE AUTHORITY OF THE LABEL" to quote your exact words, so you can't see it by yourself.

as for the issue itself, ill just say this: anarchism is essentially about creating a non- hierchical alternative to the society we live in now, right?

No, anarchism is about creating labels and a "supreme authority of the label". Anarchism is also about denying the basis values like proprety is theft and calling the peoples who doesn't follow you fake anarchists and thieves.


and if you care about "the message" create an archive of the lyrics of the bands you can download here, or better yet include them in the files.

1) We repeated like 50 times that THIS IS IN OUR PROJECT. Yes we will create a god damn fucking lyrics database biographies and such.
2) We don't HAVE to do it. Go tell your nice theories to the millions of blogs who doesn't give a shit about the lyrics
3) Check out how Pirate-punk.net and Quebecunderground.net looks like. Lyrics database, biographys database, pictures, videos, albums releases, links, ALL THE FUCKING INFOS ARE HERE. Well guess what? Those sites started like anarcho-punk.net. EVERYTHING HAS A BEGGINNING, we must start somewhere. Rome wasn't built in 2 fucking days.
4) Care about managing your own forum and let us manage our's and don't tell us what to do.

i'm really sick of hearing this argument when we repeated multiple time what our projects are.

but to do that it also has to be SUSTAINABLE. people have kids, bills, etc. if you like bands help them out financially.

Oh yeah right, so punk is about helping the musicians to pay their bills and buy new cars ?

I thought anarcho-punk was about "MUSIC FOR SOCIAL CHANGE - NOT PROFIT"

and i dont buy the "its too tedious to contact bands" arguemnt.

Tell your nice theories to www.PunksAndSkins.com and www.PunkTorrents.com

you know whats tedious? washing dishes for a year so you can afford to buy an amp and put in for a recording, or a van to go on tour with. use some common sense, of course its the right thing to do to ask someone if you distribute thier art.

Dude, you come from quebec. Do you realize all the bands are in the same situation as you ? Yet they all accept to share their stuff for free, and instead of acting like assholes like Profane Existance they say "thank you for helping us".

And we didn't ask anybody for a fucking permission. And nobody EVER made a big drama for stupid reasons like that here.



For the rest, Dan said it himself that anarcho-punk.net must "come down" and disseapear. How the hell can you find an arrengement with peoples who want to see you disseapear ?
"The Frankenstein monster you created's turned against you, now you're hated"
- ©ra$s™ (Reject Of Society)

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby Anxiety69 on 17/12/2009, 01:20

I do find it funny that the folks at the PE board seem to think that APN is just about music, file sharing and that's that. Even if music wasn't shared through here, this would still be a great forum for discussions and sharing ideas, something they seem to laugh at when it's suggested it goes on here. Whatever respect i had for PE is quickly fading away, i would love to start a blogspot account and only post PE stuff for free... I would never do that, because i dont believe two wrongs make a right, but i am tired of the bashing that APN is getting from them.
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I'm too pissed to be a folksinger
I'm not a punk but that's where I'm coming from
I'm not too into music but I got so much of it inside
I'm not a drunk aggressive idiot
And I used to believe in punk I thought it might offer something new
but punk ripped me off cheated me out of something close to me
I'm trying to move along but some roots reach pretty far down
I'm interested in politics and action In trying to create something that's not
I feel like I'm in the middle of everything There is no niche for me
And I believe in anarchy in trying to live autonomously
I try not to walk my talk but to talk my walk - $ETH!

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby ASA on 17/12/2009, 01:26

I am glad this seems to have been sorted out amicably for the time being but a more 'open' approach must be taken next time on both sides as it were, i've nada more to say.

Have a nice day

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby ungovernable on 17/12/2009, 01:53

If Anarcho-Punk.net was only about sharing music firstly this website would be a blog not an international community with forums and a tons of projects

Anyway we must all focus on something, we can't work everywhere at the same time. The argument of saying we don't care about lyrics because we don't have a lyrics section (yet) is as stupid as saying Profane Existence doesn't care about the non-english-speaking peoples. After all, their website is only in english and anarcho-punk.net is multi-lingual.

Correct me if i am wrong, but lyrics of bands on PE label are not available on their website.

This whole thing isn't even coherent, They critize us of publishing albums and on the other side they critize us of not publishing enough material with the albums. Following their theories, that would equal to asking us to steal more. I thought the logical point of view from peoples so obsessed with sales would be to think that not giving the "whole product" for free would give a reasons for potential buyers to get the real album.
And anyway i thought the main objective was to make us disseapear from the web (to quote dan's words) ?
"The Frankenstein monster you created's turned against you, now you're hated"
- ©ra$s™ (Reject Of Society)

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 02:00

oh my god, this is ridiculous. i came here to be an adult about this and its not even my issue...... tel you what, ill be painfullly clear.

1-im not personally against file sharing. again, i AM NOT against file sharing. i download stuff all of the time. my old bands stuff is on soulseek, torrent sites, blogs, whatever, and since my new bands lp came out in europe recently and in the us about a year ago im sure itll be there soon as well if it isnt already. it doesnt really bother me PERSONALLY. im sure most of the people in my new band or old bands would feel more or less the same way.
2-i defended dan because hes a friend of mine, and i dont think he deserves to be called a "capitalist". i know about his business practices; hes not making tons of money from punk. ive met his family, his 3 kids. he has probably contributed more to "anarcho punk" then 99% of people here, on the pe board or in punk in general so cut the guy a fucking break. you had a disagreement. youre both human.
3-i took the time to come here and write a civil post and you flip out, right away. calm down.
4-i have no idea what punks and skins is and dont care. the bit dust-up at this point was between ap and pe. i post a lot on pe and was coming here to try to defuse stuff a bit. again, IM NOT personally against file sharing. i find it flattering that people are interested in bands ive been in, when they are. BUT i also respect the fact that some people that do bands/labels feel differently. and moreover i think it can be done in a way that suits everyone more (my main issue being lyrics). in fact i dont understand why you dont archive the lyrics of the torrents you have here if you care about the message so much. that would certainly defuse some of this.
5-when i said dan is "an authority" i meant he has a lot of experience, which he does. dont be so reactionary.
6-perhaps dan was heavy handed with you- i dont remember the whole thing that clearly..... and now you are being heavy handed with me, a person who youve never met and (niavely perhaps) thought it would be a nice thing to do to try to mend fences between "punks" a little.
7-if it was you that i called a "dick", well, i only read the tail end of it and thats the impression i got. however i dont agree with a decision to lock the thread, but then, its not "my board". dan and the other mods can do as they see fit in my opinion. but "lying"? why would i lie? thats silly, man. i dont care NEARLY enough about any of this to do that. otherwise, yeah, what i see is two groups of people that are probably equally cliquey being shitty to one another, and i think its sad.
8-when i said "anarchism is...." if you recall, there was a "?" at the end. common ground can be found here if youll relax, instead of responding with snide, unnessecary quips against statements that WERENT EVEN MADE BY ME.
9-nobody is claiming that thier band should "pay thier bills and for thier car". these things, however, are neccessary for pretty much ALL of the bands you like to exist at all (im sure you realize this). recording, touring, gear etc costs money. none of the albums that you have up here would exist without money- it sucks but there it is. if you value this facet of your community then respect it and support it, since bands are losing money to make music FOR YOU in the first place. in other words, ask them. probably most of them would say yes, as, incidentally, i would. ive been in diy punk bands for over 15 years and toured in over 30 countries on over 20 diy tours, most of which i booked show by show on my own. personally i consider seeing all of these amazing things, meeting tons of remarkable people and such a rare life experience to be payment in and of itself. as a matter of fact my old band has approved (by us) bootlegs floating around in malaysia, mexico and indonesia (and perhaps ones i dont know about elsewhere)- by bootleg by the way i mean sold at no profit whatsoever to us. we told people that wrote and asked us to make them that of course they could do so; we have the priviledge to even be able to be in a band and are very flattered and touched that somebody in fucking indonesia would have ever even heard of us, let alone spend money to spread our music and words. but since youd be "disgusted" to support that or us my old band was called ballast and my new band is called preying hands. feel free to villify me or us if you like, but perhaps you should have all of the facts first.

i do think all of this has gotten out of hand, which is why i posted this here. if you want to have a dialog about it, we can. if you want to jump to concusions and be hot headed, thats on you. nothing in my first post was really that big of a deal though. considering the circumstances, i think im being pretty friendly. so again, calm down.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 02:04

Anxiety69 wrote:I do find it funny that the folks at the PE board seem to think that APN is just about music, file sharing and that's that. Even if music wasn't shared through here, this would still be a great forum for discussions and sharing ideas, something they seem to laugh at when it's suggested it goes on here. Whatever respect i had for PE is quickly fading away, i would love to start a blogspot account and only post PE stuff for free... I would never do that, because i dont believe two wrongs make a right, but i am tired of the bashing that APN is getting from them.

i said it there and ill say it here- you should archive the lyrics here. i also came here specifically to explore your forum (if what youre saying is directed at me)- honestly i could give 2 shits about the bulk of the music up for download here.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 02:23

ungovernable wrote:If Anarcho-Punk.net was only about sharing music firstly this website would be a blog not an international community with forums and a tons of projects

Anyway we must all focus on something, we can't work everywhere at the same time. The argument of saying we don't care about lyrics because we don't have a lyrics section (yet) is as stupid as saying Profane Existence doesn't care about the non-english-speaking peoples. After all, their website is only in english and anarcho-punk.net is multi-lingual.

Correct me if i am wrong, but lyrics of bands on PE label are not available on their website.

This whole thing isn't even coherent, They critize us of publishing albums and on the other side they critize us of not publishing enough material with the albums. Following their theories, that would equal to asking us to steal more. I thought the logical point of view from peoples so obsessed with sales would be to think that not giving the "whole product" for free would give a reasons for potential buyers to get the real album.
And anyway i thought the main objective was to make us disseapear from the web (to quote dan's words) ?


lyrics arent up on the pe site but niether are mp3s for download unless im missing something. even if they were its thier material; they can do what they want with it. which is, ahem, the whole point. sure, you dont HAVE to ask bands and labels for thier "permission"- its just the decent thing to do, so that if they DO want thier lyrics or cover art up theyll be there. me saying the thing about lyrics was directed at you because you said the message transcends every other factor, so i find it odd that the message isnt even there at all. also when i googled your site name to look into it it said "anarcho-punk.net: download 2000 mp3 albums from anarchist bands" so i think its fair to assume that the downloads are a rather large part of your focus.
also, i didnt at all know youre from quebec. if youre from montreal chances are we may even know each other socially.
anyway if you thought pe should be multilingual maybe you could have suggested it before criticising them, or better yet gotten involved. dan would LOVE for someone to do that but hes too busy with what he already does as it is. but, youve made your own mulitlingual forum, and for that i applaud you. but i will say pe is appreciated by non-english speaking punks all over the world and i doubt theres a lot of them that think they dont care about non english speakers. i mean, do you have a version of your site in japanese? russian? no? does this mean you "dont care about them"? of course not.
again, its unfortunate that you and dan dont see eye to eye; you are both clearly passionate about what youre doing.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby Anxiety69 on 17/12/2009, 02:34

said it there and ill say it here- you should archive the lyrics here. i also came here specifically to explore your forum (if what youre saying is directed at me)- honestly i could give 2 shits about the bulk of the music up for download here.


No, this wasn't directed at you specifically, i actually respect that you came here to see what were all about and such, and I wish other users at PE would do the same before all the snap judgments and such that get slung our way. I agree that it has gotten out of hand, my intention of going there and posting my thoughts was not intended to rile people up, but that does seem to have happened anyways. All i wanted was to give my perspective on why I think it's ok, and why i think it is absolutely juvenile that all the shit talking has become. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that I have had a lot of insults hurled my way, even though i have refrained from doing the same thing. Again, You seem to have missed where the mod (ungovernable) has stated that putting the lyrics up is a plan. Please at least acknowledge that you have seen that :)
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I'm too pissed to be a folksinger
I'm not a punk but that's where I'm coming from
I'm not too into music but I got so much of it inside
I'm not a drunk aggressive idiot
And I used to believe in punk I thought it might offer something new
but punk ripped me off cheated me out of something close to me
I'm trying to move along but some roots reach pretty far down
I'm interested in politics and action In trying to create something that's not
I feel like I'm in the middle of everything There is no niche for me
And I believe in anarchy in trying to live autonomously
I try not to walk my talk but to talk my walk - $ETH!

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby ungovernable on 17/12/2009, 02:39

9-nobody is claiming that thier band should "pay thier bills and for thier car". these things, however, are neccessary for pretty much ALL of the bands you like to exist at all (im sure you realize this). recording, touring, gear etc costs money. none of the albums that you have up here would exist without money- it sucks but there it is. if you value this facet of your community then respect it and support it, since bands are losing money to make music FOR YOU in the first place.

So why are you backing up your arguments by saying "they have to feed their kids and pay bills"

There's a song called "Punkrock is not a fucking job" by a famous french punk band. And when i see such mentalities i understand what they mean.

i said it there and ill say it here- you should archive the lyrics here.

.....and i said i have repeated like 50 times that we WILL have a lyrics section. This is in our project since the begginning. Did you even take the time to read my post?

We have to start somewhere and then the site will grow.

Again, take a look at http://www.pirate-punk.net and http://www.quebecunderground.net and see how much information is there. Anarcho-punk.net will looks like this some day, and will have a lyrics section, a biography section, an interviews section, a pictures and videos section, etc... Those 2 websites started just like anarcho-punk.net is today, with only downloads and forum. And after a couple of months the websites became what they are today : a big and complete database of informations about the bands from the scene, a referrence in its kind.

dan would LOVE for someone to do that but hes too busy with what he already does as it is.

So he can be excused, but we can not.

Oh yeah i forgot, dan is someone special, he's a punk rawk heroe

i mean, do you have a version of your site in japanese? russian?

yes we do, we even have a small russian community here, with punks from siberia, russia, bileorussia, ukraine, ....

no? does this mean you "dont care about them"? of course not.

That's exactly the point i was trying to explain.

So, because anarcho-punk.net doesn't have (yet) a lyrics section, does this mean we don't care about lyrics and the message like you guys pretend ? Of course not. Just like PE not having an international section doesn't mean they don't care about it.

its unfortunate that you and dan dont see eye to eye; you are both clearly passionate about what youre doing.

Dan said he would love to be in the same room as me because he could punch me or some shit like that, so fuck him.

I also invite him and his friends who defend capitalist values to come meet us and tell us how we are thieves, fake anarchists and the other insults they have been repeating over and over in the last months. Face to face, like they wanted. Oi Polloi show is soon, and we will all be here. Check myspace for the dates, Be there.
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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 02:56

ungovernable wrote:
9-nobody is claiming that thier band should "pay thier bills and for thier car". these things, however, are neccessary for pretty much ALL of the bands you like to exist at all (im sure you realize this). recording, touring, gear etc costs money. none of the albums that you have up here would exist without money- it sucks but there it is. if you value this facet of your community then respect it and support it, since bands are losing money to make music FOR YOU in the first place.

So why are you backing up your arguments by saying "they have to feed their kids and pay bills"

There's a song called "Punkrock is not a fucking job" by a famous french punk band. And when i see such mentalities i understand what they mean.

i said it there and ill say it here- you should archive the lyrics here.

.....and i said i have repeated like 50 times that we WILL have a lyrics section. This is in our project since the begginning. Did you even take the time to read my post?

We have to start somewhere and then the site will grow.

Again, take a look at http://www.pirate-punk.net and http://www.quebecunderground.net and see how much information is there. Anarcho-punk.net will looks like this some day, and will have a lyrics section, a biography section, an interviews section, a pictures and videos section, etc... Those 2 websites started just like anarcho-punk.net is today, with only downloads and forum. And after a couple of months the websites became what they are today : a big and complete database of informations about the bands from the scene, a referrence in its kind.

dan would LOVE for someone to do that but hes too busy with what he already does as it is.

So he can be excused, but we can not.

Oh yeah i forgot, dan is someone special, he's a punk rawk heroe

i mean, do you have a version of your site in japanese? russian?

yes we do, we even have a small russian community here, with punks from siberia, russia, bileorussia, ukraine, ....

no? does this mean you "dont care about them"? of course not.

That's exactly the point i was trying to explain.

So, because anarcho-punk.net doesn't have (yet) a lyrics section, does this mean we don't care about lyrics and the message like you guys pretend ? Of course not. Just like PE not having an international section doesn't mean they don't care about it.

its unfortunate that you and dan dont see eye to eye; you are both clearly passionate about what youre doing.

Dan said he would love to be in the same room as me because he could punch me or some shit like that, so fuck him.

I also invite him and his friends who defend capitalist values to come meet us and tell us how we are thieves, fake anarchists and the other insults they have been repeating over and over in the last months. Face to face, like they wanted. Oi Polloi show is soon, and we will all be here. Check myspace for the dates, Be there.


-sure, ill be there. my band is playing the show in montreal if youre gonna be there- im the drummer with the dreads and glasses. and sure, if you want to talk about it, we can. hell, ill even buy you a beer. but lets be civil about it- theres no need for childish drama.
-im not trying to "defeat you" or something with my arguements so why are you so defensive? and yes, i missed the part about lyrics being up soon. and yeah, i think thats a good thing.
-i didnt know you had people from siberia or wherever here; thats hardly the point. the point you made was that they "didnt care about non englis speakers" which obviously isnt true. i arbitrarily picked those languages since they are difficult and thus underrepresented in western punk forums. i thought that would be kinda obvious.
-dan is certainly not my "hero". hes a flawed human being like you, like me, like everybody. and anyways, im not him and have a different position on this, probably closer to yours which youd see if youd calm down. as i said before i defended dan because hes a friend of mine.
-with your "punk is not a job" comment you sidestep the issue- try to insult my integrity if you want (even though again i have spent years and much money being involved in punk) but you didnt answer my question, which is, if most of the albums youre indexing would not exist without the labor of another punk (let alone another person), how do you justify not even feeling the need to ask someone to use it and for free no less? it just seems like courtesy to me and i find it ridiclous that youd actually try to insult me for posing a totally legitimate question,particularly when im being very diplomatic...... i understand completely for out of print stuff but why not if the band is current? you seem to be resistant to this idea with this "property is theft" arguement and i dont understand why. and dont give me some hoity toity rhetoric, i want a real answer.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 03:05

Anxiety69 wrote:
said it there and ill say it here- you should archive the lyrics here. i also came here specifically to explore your forum (if what youre saying is directed at me)- honestly i could give 2 shits about the bulk of the music up for download here.


No, this wasn't directed at you specifically, i actually respect that you came here to see what were all about and such, and I wish other users at PE would do the same before all the snap judgments and such that get slung our way. I agree that it has gotten out of hand, my intention of going there and posting my thoughts was not intended to rile people up, but that does seem to have happened anyways. All i wanted was to give my perspective on why I think it's ok, and why i think it is absolutely juvenile that all the shit talking has become. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that I have had a lot of insults hurled my way, even though i have refrained from doing the same thing. Again, You seem to have missed where the mod (ungovernable) has stated that putting the lyrics up is a plan. Please at least acknowledge that you have seen that :)


yeah, im somewhat guilty of the snarkyness towards you specifically which is part of the reason i came here. ultimately i also think its stupid that 2 otherwise similar forums would be so at odds over this, and i guess i thought it would be a good idea to make some kind of peace or at least try to prevent some kind of completely ridiculous inter-web drama (or more so than what has already occurred.
i didnt see the stated plan to put up lyrics and yes, i do think thats a good idea.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby chesticles on 17/12/2009, 03:14

YEA AND IS IT CRUST TO BITCH ABOUT NOT GETTING YOUR MONEY? because its all about the money rightttttttttttttttttt?


sarcasm..
religion and all its mental gymnastics..

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 03:34

is that supposed to be a dig at me? i hope not, that would be kind of dissappointing. im really kinda actually making an effort to check our your forum and i think its interesting.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby ungovernable on 17/12/2009, 03:42

-sure, ill be there. my band is playing the show in montreal if youre gonna be there- im the drummer with the dreads and glasses. and sure, if you want to talk about it, we can. hell, ill even buy you a beer. but lets be civil about it- theres no need for childish drama.

What is your band ? I thought only Hold A Grudge was playing with Oi Polloi

By the way do you talk french ? My spoken english really sucks

I'm not the kind of guy to fight for stupid reason, it's not me who talked about getting to violence because of a stupid file sharing story.

-im not trying to "defeat you" or something with my arguements so why are you so defensive?

I'm defensive because we are being attacked and insulted on all sides from PE and you obviously came from this forum because of this story while saying we were being dicks.

-with your "punk is not a job" comment you sidestep the issue- try to insult my integrity if you want (even though again i have spent years and much money being involved in punk) but you didnt answer my question, which is, if most of the albums youre indexing would not exist without the labor of another punk (let alone another person)

It wasn't to insult you, it was to bring the point that punk is not a JOB. It invalidate your argument that the bands need to "feed their kids and pay their bills". Get a job to pay your bills and feed your family. Therefore, i am answering your question.


Thousands of great bands always gave their stuff for free, they never had any problem of money or problems for their tours... File sharing isn't a drama. I could quote millions of example.

If the bands need more money, the fight the real enemy and attack real thieves who are selling band merch like tshirts without authorization. And you will even make more money than fighting file sharing because even downloaders buy t-shirts.


I'm sick of this debate. We removed all profane existence records, why are we still hearing about them ? Leave us alone, why don't you just care about your own business after all none of you seems to get involved in this community otherwise than critizing.

The bands just have to contact us and ask their stuff to be removed. Just like the millions of other blogs on the web. Nothing new. you guys should be used to it. Welcome to the 21th century
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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 04:16

ungovernable wrote:
-sure, ill be there. my band is playing the show in montreal if youre gonna be there- im the drummer with the dreads and glasses. and sure, if you want to talk about it, we can. hell, ill even buy you a beer. but lets be civil about it- theres no need for childish drama.

What is your band ? I thought only Hold A Grudge was playing with Oi Polloi

By the way do you talk french ? My spoken english really sucks

I'm not the kind of guy to fight for stupid reason, it's not me who talked about getting to violence because of a stupid file sharing story.

-im not trying to "defeat you" or something with my arguements so why are you so defensive?

I'm defensive because we are being attacked and insulted on all sides from PE and you obviously came from this forum because of this story while saying we were being dicks.

-with your "punk is not a job" comment you sidestep the issue- try to insult my integrity if you want (even though again i have spent years and much money being involved in punk) but you didnt answer my question, which is, if most of the albums youre indexing would not exist without the labor of another punk (let alone another person)

It wasn't to insult you, it was to bring the point that punk is not a JOB. It invalidate your argument that the bands need to "feed their kids and pay their bills". Get a job to pay your bills and feed your family. Therefore, i am answering your question.


Thousands of great bands always gave their stuff for free, they never had any problem of money or problems for their tours... File sharing isn't a drama. I could quote millions of example.

If the bands need more money, the fight the real enemy and attack real thieves who are selling band merch like tshirts without authorization. And you will even make more money than fighting file sharing because even downloaders buy t-shirts.


I'm sick of this debate. We removed all profane existence records, why are we still hearing about them ? Leave us alone, why don't you just care about your own business after all none of you seems to get involved in this community otherwise than critizing.

The bands just have to contact us and ask their stuff to be removed. Just like the millions of other blogs on the web. Nothing new. you guys should be used to it. Welcome to the 21th century


okay, first, the beginning. my band is called preying hands, we're playing along with another band, i believed called burning ships? bert from juenesse apatride is booking it if you know him, he asked us to play. also sorry, i dont really speak french well enough to have a more complex conversation like this one....

now for the other part-
just to be the devils advocate, bands and labels DID have no problem touring, releasing records etc. that has changed now, as any label or touring band will undoubtedly tell you. shit is a lot harder in the past few years, and on top of that gas is like twice as expensive. if you dont tour and only play in your own town and release terrible sounding home recorded protools stuff, then okay. otherwise, well, things are changing. and dont say, "well you should get a job and pay for all your own gas" because then youd probably see a band or 2 a year come to a place like quebec, and i know you dont want that, right? i mean, most bands you like cant afford that, period. they NEED door money and merch money just to make it home, never mind live off of. which leads me to another point, one which we apparently agree on. "unlicensed" t shirt sales. i also think its lame when a distro prints up shirts of a band, say, my old band (which did happen) and them not give them proceeds. my theory is that filesharing is okay BECAUSE active bands will then come to a town and more people will know them more quickly, thus more people will come and buy shirts plus the door will be higher, thus ensuring out of town bands all get gas money to get to the next place. continuity of the community; show serve as focal points for us all socially and politically. in fact my old band had 2 lps and toured a lot earllier in the 90s and now my new band a few years after that released a record, then toured, and people knew it more quickly; i feel that this is a positive aspect of filesharing. in fact, we included download cards in our lp with a code authorising a free high quality download of the entire album.
but....
i dont see why youd be okay with a bootleg album (and lets face it, mp3s are the bootleg of the 21st century, since you brought up centuries) and not a bootleg shirt. if anything labor went into a shirt; at least the bootlegger had to invest money into shirts, do the labor of printing etc. anyway i guess i dont see the difference.
also, i wont "leave you alone"- come on man, you have created a forum to discuss this very issue so am i now supposed to "leave you alone" because you dont agree or dont have an answer? im trying to engage you in a constructive manner and be civil. im not trying to criticize you, and i came on here because another ap member reopened a thread on pe and restarted this debate after it had been inactive for some weeks. and i said at the beginning of THAT thread, "if this topic is gonna come back from the grave maybe this time it can remain civil". so after all of this the least you can do is respond.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby Jimmy DeLocke on 17/12/2009, 04:54

aw man guys, I think see a big love fest coming on. Anyway, so far I'm lovin' this site. I read some pretty wacky posts and responses. This is the best topic so far. I seriously don't know how you manage to keep responding, Ungovernable. I'm not trying to stir up shit but the name is "UNgovernable"- you can't expect him to do what you tell him. I busted my ass for a few years booking shows as do lots of others around the globe. It's great that Dan has stuck with it but to me the point is that I do/did it for the music, not a payoff of any kind. Sometimes we gotta be careful about our egos and what we "get" out of our selfless hard work. I hope more PE bands come to my town and I hope that more bands get uploaded to AP so I can download them for free and play them on my radio show. And I hope Dan and Ungovernable hold hands and walk on the beach.

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 05:07

i appreciate your positivity (and i say that not sarcastically) but its about bands being ABLE to come to your town (particularly a place like AZ) id imagine you have noticed a decrease in the number of touring bands coming your way in the last few years, right? not on the west coast, not on the east coast, not in austin? bands flying between coasts?

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby ASA on 17/12/2009, 05:49

Can I just say: Anarchy means that you litter Red Skin

if P.E. has been removed due to request then sweet, and now... ask permission for the uploaders or make a caviat that uploader ask bands and send message to you with reply or remove, i had to learn this hard lesson, people got reallll shirty and i meant no harm done, i learnt the hard way about human nature which is mostly good by the way, don't lettem trick ya

no money was exchanged in this message service

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Re: PE discusses AP.net

Postby instantlybent on 17/12/2009, 06:25

ASA wrote:if P.E. has been removed due to request then sweet, and now... ask permission for the uploaders or make a caviat that uploader ask bands and send message to you with reply or remove....


see, this seems reasonable to me. particularly asking the uploader to be responsible so your mods (im assuming you have a couple) dont have a mountain of new work to do. also, including label info would be good. perhaps bands can focus more on "bonus" stuff in releases to get people who really like a band to buy something later. or (as much as i personally hate them) "novelty" releases (colored vinyl, hand screened covers etc).

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