Crass: Capitalist traitors using copyright laws against Anarcho-Punk.Net - 3000 albums deleted because of these greedy selfish sellout bastards

[Ivanovich]

Yeah, upmost respect for Zoundz, though bit miffed to find out that used session drummer on 'Subvert' (apparently). One of my all time fave songs is that. Plenty other bands also stay true, so no reason why they can't all do it, really.

[Ivanovich]

I wasn't trying to confuse ya. I just got too carried away with writing. The only only only point I was trying to make is that they did not get paid $60,000 for one show and that they did not come home from tour with 2 million dollars. Somebody posted that they made $60,000 on a show based on the logic that tickets were $30 and 2,000 people paid. I was just trying to point out that this logic is flawed.

Well maybe, but this aint a maths test. They sure make a lot more than Zoundz made on their tour, right? That's the point. Why? Did they have to work harder, or what? Nah, it's cos they could. They could rip off the punters. Charge what people will pay, not what it's worth = capitalism.

Ok, yeah, you agree, I know, I know.

[punkmar77]

A really good and very young friend of mine that is also an extremely talented musician and happens to sport a Crass tattoo decided that although I had changed my mind about attending he was still curious to see Steve & Company on that last tour, he came home devastated, as soon as he walked into the venue he noticed a very long line of people at the merch table snatching up $35 Crass shirts and he said it all went downhill from there, I felt really bad for him because although I tried to warn him he is an emotional and sensitive soul and I could see it really hurt him to witness it all, to me at least, that is the reality of what is happening with this band...

[Ivanovich]

Yeah, lot of people must feel the same. For me, it was some years ago when Dial House was going down, and they put out an appeal to raise the cash to buy it. 70,000 quid they wanted. I dunno, asking your fans to buy your home for you, something didn't seem quite right about that.

[ungovernable]

Big venues have thousands of dollars in overhead: a staff of around sixty- bouncers, loaders, runners, bartenders, bar backs, floor managers, office managers, sound engineers, lighting techs, custodians etc... The venue has to pay utilities on powering all of the sound and lighting equipment not to mention air conditioning a room that holds 2,000 people. They have to pay for all kinds of permits, taxes, and insurance, maintenance, supplies, disposables, advertising, hospitality (towels, food, beer, water) for the band. Above all else, these venues are a business- they are in it to make money. On the night of a show, the band signs a contract which makes them a freelance contractor for the club. Do you really think that the club is going to let an employee make more than the boss? I would be shocked if the band had a guarantee that was even close to $10,000. Bands do not set the ticket prices, the ticket price is determined by the club based on the bands' guarantee. Granted, the higher the guarantee, the higher the ticket price- I'll give you that.

I'm sure the band made lots of money in merch but take this into account: Venues that large always take a cut of the merch, this means that they had to count every single t-shirt before and after the show and pay the venue anywhere from %5-%10 of what they sold. If the customs agents at the Canadian border went through their merch (which is extremely likely considering that the band was neither Canadian or American.) they would have had to pay Canadian sales tax on every shirt they were carrying whether they sold them or not. Trust me I've been through all of this.

So, it cost them $60k of fees ? Bullshit.

And they didn't get their merch for free. Most likely it had to be made in the U.S.

It was Gildan screenprinted t-shirts. They paid like $1 for the shirt plus another $2 for the screenprinting, and sold it for $25

I was only addressing the notion that Steve Ignorant's Crass made $60,000 on one show.

This is a false debate. Argueing on the numbers is just like argueing that the holocaust made less that 6 millions deaths. No matter what the real numbers are, IT'S STILL TOO MUCH.

There is no way in hell he spent $60k for his fees.


The dropkick murphys played a show in the same venue for less than $20.
Oi polloi came here and charged only $10 for the show.
I could quote many other examples.


Another problem is his last gig at the Shepherds Bush

There was 2000 people and the tickets were $35 each. This time, no hotel, no airplane tickets, no bullshit excuse.

Last year i had compared it with bands from other countries (who had to pay plane tickets and hotel) who did a show AT THE SAME VENUE FOR LESS !!!
it's here : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5531&hilit=steve+ignorant&start=100

How the fuck can you explain that big capitalist pop artists are charging less for a ticket than Steve Ignorant, at the same venue ?

[Butch22451]

When i first heard about this i thought someone was just trolling me but when found it made me mad, think i use to look up to these guys

[ungovernable]

Funny. $outhern Records refuse to provide explainations, they just say that "everything we say are just lies"... They even pretend that their website wasn't down and that Anonymous didn't hack it ! Hahahah ! I think many many people here and on Facebook can attest that the website was indeed offline for a while.
Ok, so let's take it down again.

http://www.facebook.com/southernrecords ... ed_comment

http://www.facebook.com/southernrecords ... ment_reply

[ungovernable]

BTW, just a small reminder. Not the first time that Southern Records uses the law against punks.

From Colin Jerwood, Conflict lead singer :

Colin Jerwood:

Hello Steve,
I don’t know weather to laugh or cry, I can’t take in the article in your book that someone has sent me today. You, of all people actually believe that I did this? I can only think that someone has got to you or the darker forc...es that use mind control to separate and weaken us are at work. I have never gone into any detail about this as not for one second did I think you would believe it and couldn’t give a toss what the rest of them or southern think. Now although I don’t want to I have to explain what happened so here it is. The first I heard of this crap is when Cherry reds matt emailed me to say Southern had been in touch saying they own the CRASS songs that Conflict covered on the mortarhate releases and that I don’t and therefore want accounting too for the releases, my response was of course I don’t own the CRASS songs they do and yes southern probably do (knowing southern own the Crass label) and so yes account to them. I presumed at the time that this was just like the way Southern/Crass had taught me how to account where all the income is paid as a mechanical royalties (I adopted this throughout my entire time at jungle and never known different). Crass songs released on Mortarhate, southern want some royalty’s makes sense, end of in my eyes and all fair. Then a while latter I get sent snippets from the Sothern Forum that show Alison accusing me of stealing crass songs and tens of thousands of pounds income from you and so forth(I think the figure that was collected by mistake was more like £250 and was repaid in full immediately). In honesty I don’t go on Sothern’s forum as it disinterests me and I would probably upset the apple cart as I would have to comment at the hypocrisy that exists within that place. I ignored it Alison hates Conflict and Southern never have been keen and of course this hit an all time high when I put myself and conflict up in releasing the statement of support for YOU when Alison and co were hammering you for doing the bush empire gathering. As far as I was concerned (the way it was left last time I saw you) was southern were bastards for poking their nose in and SO was Penny and some of the others for trying to stop you. So it came as no surprise when the next thing I hear is that penny is now spouting off that I have stole your songs. I thought it was a complete load of shite but of course I did not know you had made amends and was in fact working with southern again, so I ignored it all. In the end I thought I better put this right and made a statement on MySpace and face book which stated in was crap, that I had not received a cent and that you would know this was not true I stated I would follow this up with facts and figures to prove my claim and show southern had conned people into believing this. As you probably know the next thing I get is (for want of a better word) a legal gagging order from a top London solicitor telling me to remove the quotes and apologies and stating they would make a claim for damages to southern reputation .How fucking funny is that Crass and southern using the law they hate to silence me defending myself. This letter was sent to my mothers home Steve and caused her great distress at a time I was trying to cure her from breast cancer after having two major operations and endless chemotherapy, that’s why I was not online for a long time and missed all the early warning signs of this sad story I was busy watching my mum get cut and fried. Ok, the facts Steve I NEVER told ANYONE I owned your songs I only signed a list of tracks(which cherry red took from cd covers on mortarhate) that cherry red presented to me stating I owned the rights to release them, this list of course included the conflict covers with you signing that had been out for many years already so I didn’t think for a second you would mind.(I never complain when southern put conflict on comps, or have ever asked for royalties) If I did wrong im sorry but I have NEVER even done a contract before and cherry red were trying to make it easy and less confusing for me(again I adopted what you taught me don’t sign contracts) Cherry red are innocent in this Steve and so am I no one was out to take from you, all I have ever done for you is give and show you support no matter what you do.
Did it NEVER occur to you or penny or southern as to why I only STOLE the Crass songs that are on Mortarhate? Why did I not take the lot as I apparently knew you would not publish them? Does it not state clearly on all recordings and sales notes songs originally recorded by crass covered by conflict with Steve ignorant? And do you really think ANYONE in the entire music business would think I wrote all those Crass songs anyway (must have been young)
That in itself is enough Steve let alone the fact that I never received a cent of any money cherry red collected, the advance, which was paid direct to jungle was agreed way before I signed a list of tracks so I didn’t use it to get a figure higher as it was for the amount jungle were owed and no more. So Steve I had not stole tens of thousands of pounds from crass and earnt a mint out of the deal I have not had a penny and never will.
Another thing you may have forgot, do you not remember me saying to you in the pub at the empire` go see matt at cherry red mate, he will give you the best deal to release the video of the gig they are honest and spot on at accounting` Would I send you to the very person/company that I have ripped you off with knowing matt will again give you a lost of songs for you to sign? Much the very same song. Would I have even dared to do the empire with you knowing that I had fucked you over? You know too well that I didn’t want to even play the empire as mum had a stroke two days before but I didn’t want to let you down with all the shit that was flying around about you.
Would I have asked you soon after the empire to let me take you and a line up to the states and let conflict support you? I called you lots after the empire but you only got back once and said you were taking time off to come up for air.
I never contacted Alison or penny regarding this as they did not try ONCE to contact me to ask me what was what; instead they chose to publicly slaughter me and I mention that in my statement which in turn they made me withdraw, in honesty as I said I couldn’t give a toss what they think of me, there’s no love lost im just concerned they don’t have a better option to direct their aggression. I did not contact you as for not for one second did I think you believed it, not for a second and if you did WHY THE FUCK DIDN’T YOU CONTACT ME.? You have my mobiles, my home numbers and my address where you have been made welcome and looked after many times. Why Steve? I don’t get it; if it had been the other way around id have come to you to find out what the fuck you were up to. Instead, I read that article, which I will never ever read again. Steve, I thought you knew me as I have always been there with you through thick and thin, the good times and the not so good and I was the person in my eyes that made you laugh a little. I have stood up for Crass and the ideals for three decades and got the scars to prove it and you know what I wouldn’t change a single thing. I have no idea what has made you turn against me (it must be more than this, as it don’t make sense) and I know I will never get to talk to you again, so you make sure you take good care of yourself and have a FANTASTIC life.
IF, the time comes when you need me I will be by your side and ready and willing to do whatever, wherever as is necessary. There will come a time when our kind have to do what we have got to do what we got to do so im sure our paths will cross again one day.
That’s it mate (or not) Goodbye. Colin.

[Ammon]

i'v been banned from the crass, steve ignorent, and sourthern records face book page just fo posting this link

[ungovernable]

i'v been banned from the crass, steve ignorent, and sourthern records face book page just fo posting this link

Same !

That's ironic coming from people who used to fight against censorship...

"The sound of free speech", eh ?

[ungovernable]

I’ve already had a stack of threatening
letters from Page, but what really stuck in my throat, Bron, is hearing that Allison and
Page have threatened to prosecute, among others, some little Southern band for daring
to put a track of their own on their homemade band website.
The band caved. She’s
suing everyone who gets in her way. Labels and musicians are pulling their stuff out
of Southern because of her behaviour. She’s not trustworthy and she’s not even good
at her job, but I still feel like a third world country up against the might of western
capitalism. Thanks a bunch, Sue Loder.

Source : http://crassunofficial.com/crass.pdf

[AnarchoThrash]

Hello and greetings from me, I have known the site for quite sometime now (1 or 2 years) but I hadn't registered until now.

Accept it guys, Crass are hypocrites and authoritarian scums anymore so the best you can definately do to cause damage to them is to boycott Crass stuff (CD's,LP's, merch) and everything else sold in Southern Records site.

I will point out why the claim that internet kills music is an excuse and I personally hear it from the so called "true" punks/metalheads/or whatever.

1. There are people from Africa, Asia or even Europe that can't afford to buy the music and even if Internet hadn't existed they wouldn't buy it anyway so it's like preventing the right to poor people to enjoy music.

2. By the rise of internet many underground bands that were burried for 20+ years and hadn't got any kind of attention in the past, started to gain attention leading to represses, merch, reunions ($$$ money) and generally publicity that those bands never even imagined to gain after breaking up.

3. Many people download music but end up buying the stuff they actually like, I will talk about myself as an example: I am a one of the die-hard downloaders here, having a hard time with money and currently a part-time job that helps a bit, I can ensure you that 80% of my money goes to LP's (I buy like 10 LP's per month)

4. All you people who talk about the 80's and how it was without internet just realise that in the 80's there was a use called "tape trading" which was based on tape recording/copying and giving away to someone else and the bands still didn't earn money from this.

I currently recommend you to use http://www.psychocydd.co.uk/ to upload music at the moment until you have your own tracker as direct downloads have gone bad lately.

[ungovernable]

Further to all this, Allison, Gee, myself and archivist Gordon Wilkins (who has put in
untold hours of unpaid work for the overall benefit of Crass) hatched-up the idea of creating
a website download facility to be called ‘Crass Arkive’. On it, we intended amongst other
things to offer free downloads of the many bootlegs that exist and/or make an optional
charge for the downloading of material on which we had incurred costs. For the sake of
transparency, which we felt was particularly important for the project, costs relating to each
specific download were to be displayed on the site, thereby allowing the purchaser a
considered choice about how much they wished to pay. Once the costs had been covered on
any given download, it would become available free of charge. It was yet another new face
to what we believed could be an exciting future both for Southern and for Crass.

...But then Allison decided to take over everything and take decisions without consulting all band members

Source : http://crassunofficial.com/crass.pdf


This CrassUnofficial.com website is really interessing... i've read a couple of pages and Allison is really a fucking capitalist scum sueing everyone and stealing money from crass members. I haven't gone through it all yet but i will when i have more free time. I recommand everyone to check it out. Southern Records are really fucking capitalist bastards.

People from PE accuse us of stealing from bands with downloads... Well, is it thief when you steal from thieves ?

[AnarchoThrash]

Further to all this, Allison, Gee, myself and archivist Gordon Wilkins (who has put in
untold hours of unpaid work for the overall benefit of Crass) hatched-up the idea of creating
a website download facility to be called ‘Crass Arkive’. On it, we intended amongst other
things to offer free downloads of the many bootlegs that exist and/or make an optional
charge for the downloading of material on which we had incurred costs. For the sake of
transparency, which we felt was particularly important for the project, costs relating to each
specific download were to be displayed on the site, thereby allowing the purchaser a
considered choice about how much they wished to pay. Once the costs had been covered on
any given download, it would become available free of charge. It was yet another new face
to what we believed could be an exciting future both for Southern and for Crass.

...But then Allison decided to take over everything and take decisions without consulting all band members

Source : http://crassunofficial.com/crass.pdf


This CrassUnofficial.com website is really interessing... i've read a couple of pages and Allison is really a fucking capitalist scum sueing everyone and stealing money from crass members. I haven't gone through it all yet but i will when i have more free time. I recommand everyone to check it out. Southern Records are really fucking capitalist bastards.

People from PE accuse us of stealing from bands with downloads... Well, is it thief when you steal from thieves ?

Don't get me wrong but when you don't make money from those downloads you practically don't steal anything.
Arrogant capitalists are the ones who claim that without proving it.

[AnarchoThrash]

My suggestion to everyone here is to spread what happened cause of Crass through your blogs/sites and start boycotting Southern Records and Crass stuff (this way they will lose money that will hurt their greedy asses so much)

[Incalight]

APN have been accused of not showing respect to crass by putting up their music without prior consent, that's a joke considering the degree of disrespect shown by crass/whoever to take the steps they did, and their complete disregard for the other 3000+ albums on this site. (I think my band mate had our stuff up on here as well). Our band along with many many others have been shown disrespect, the people that the music was being offered to freely have been shown disrespect and denied the right to have that music. Music is a means to getting out a message, inform, unite and to be enjoyed. If they want to download our stuff for free, that's fine - it's better for the environment. It's better that a few thousand people had that music if they chose, than a couple of hundred who had paid for it. The poor should never be denied. Music brings people together, gives people something to relate to and be inspired. So when people have defended crass and claimed they were disrespected, well maybe so, but firstly I'm not sure they have earnt respect and considering the disrespect targetted at APN, it's hard to take that line seriously. The difference is APN never put the stuff up to be disrespectful nor vindictive (at the time), the reaction from crass's lot was very intentional, downright nasty, driven by their elevated sense of self, elitism, power and greed. We don't need some dictator types coming along to this site to take other peoples music, including ours, away from the people. It's like stealing from the poor.

[AnarchoThrash]

It's better that a few thousand people had that music if they chose, than a couple of hundred who had paid for it. The poor should never be denied. Music brings people together, gives people something to relate to and be inspired. So when people have defended crass and claimed they were disrespected, well maybe so, but firstly I'm not sure they have earnt respect and considering the disrespect targetted at APN, it's hard to take that line seriously. The difference is APN never put the stuff up to be disrespectful nor vindictive (at the time), the reaction from crass's lot was very intentional, downright nasty, driven by their elevated sense of self, elitism, power and greed. We don't need some dictator types coming along to this site to take other peoples music, including ours, away from the people. It's like stealing from the poor.

Exactly this way, it's like only rich people have the right to enjoy music.

[Ivanovich]

Concerning Crass and Southern Shitstain Alison, everyone sing along...

Cor blimey, it's the smelliest arse
With fat lips, and a face that's a farce
Living testament, a flap that's around
So that's your manager, she resembles a clown

You think the people deserve better than that
An example that is healthy, not fat
How can you take this lady seriously, where's she at?
And how come you all sell out just because - she shat.

[Ivanovich]

"As members of the post-sixties intellectual avant garde privileged elite. living in their Safe Epping Forest Home, Crass adopted the style but not the substance of punk. Dial House was never a squat and it's inhabitants never had to confront the 'in yer face' reality which the survivors of the punk squatting scene had to as part of their daily life".

- Alistair Livingstone


Sums it up quite well, all style, no substance.

...the Wiki entry on Crass is aint that bad.

[Ivanovich]

Ok, now this has pissed me off...

http://thehippiesnowwearblack.wordpress ... mbly-edit/

"Bullshit Detector – A collaborative documentary which examines the cultural significance and legacy of the legendary Crass Records compilation album releases (1980-1984) and which explores synergies between these and the Imperfect Cinema project."

Fucking bullshit. Some bands sent in demos, they put them on a comp. Thats it. Nothing more. Watch it, I mean, bouncers, banners, shitty venues, had these guys never been to a punk gig before? I picked up a guitar and started playing after hearing Pistols, Clash, UK Subs, Ruts, Angelic Upstats, as did thousands of others, I never even heard of Crass until couple years later. Then fuck face Rimbaud saying yeah, that's where real punk is? Too fucking right, you'll never understand it, will you, mate, you got too much cash stuck up your fucking ass. Think you can hijack our fucking music and call it your own? Fuck off and die, bastard. JJ from Active Slaughter is doing time for giving his all to the scene, right now, where the fuck are you? Where the fuck are any of them? Milking the scene dry with crap films and bullshit. Fucking nostagic money grabbing ego trip. Anarcho Punk aint a fucking museum. Fuckers.

--> Respect to Conflict, who actually did come out in support of JJ. Rest of them, fuck off.

--> And Shitfuck Allison, if you thinking of reissue, you gonna have to fucking kill me first.