Crass: Capitalist traitors using copyright laws against Anarcho-Punk.Net - 3000 albums deleted because of these greedy selfish sellout bastards

[Raztapunk]

OK, I agree that intellectual property is for everyone and does not belongs to no-one since that's the basic premise for anarchism, BUT...

You are getting too harsh on Crass, 'cos they are like the first anarcho-punk band and they should be greeted for that.

I agree that their lyrics are a bit narrow-minded and it's definitely not good what they just did, but I still think that you should let it be.

They are all cranky old fuckers anyway.

[butcher]

OK, I agree that intellectual property is for everyone and does not belongs to no-one since that's the basic premise for anarchism, BUT...

You are getting too harsh on Crass, 'cos they are like the first anarcho-punk band and they should be greeted for that.

I agree that their lyrics are a bit narrow-minded and it's definitely not good what they just did, but I still think that you should let it be.

They are all cranky old fuckers anyway.

2 things:

1. It's partly due to their importance as (quite likely) the first anarcho-punk band that makes this sort of behaviour all the more disappointing.

2. It's not merely a basic premise of anarchism, it's fairly obvious that all ideas, language, music and so on, are, self-evidently, social in nature. All discourse that posits an individuals ownership over certain communicative practises is little more than theoretical nonsense. No discourse exists in a void, and when one argues they own some 'intellectual property', they merely engage in some of the more absurd realms of philosophical bollocks. One, when communicating with another, presupposes a whole raft of shared signifying processes. That's how communicating works, we have to have some degree of shared agreement in regards to what certain signs signify.

[ungovernable]

OK, I agree that intellectual property is for everyone and does not belongs to no-one since that's the basic premise for anarchism, BUT...

You are getting too harsh on Crass, 'cos they are like the first anarcho-punk band and they should be greeted for that.

I agree that their lyrics are a bit narrow-minded and it's definitely not good what they just did, but I still think that you should let it be.

They are all cranky old fuckers anyway.

So because they are put on pedestrals and considered as heroes of the scene we shouldn't dare to critise them ? Isn't punk about questionning everything ?

We do greet what they did during 1978-1984 and the article says it, but we hate what they have become after that. BEST BEFORE 1984.

[ungovernable]

Crass are also sending DMCA to youtube to remove their videos. Read last comment here:

[ungovernable]

War//Plague supports Crass actions. A member of the band called "Andy lefton" He commented on Crass page :

Andy Lefton
I'm glad the plug was pulled on APN. They've taken so much away from the DIY community.

It's also funny because "The Old Punk" a member registered on this forum and moderator at a torrent tracker music sharing forum "liked" his comment... He also have his own music download blog. Another fucking hypocrite.

[butcher]

War//Plague supports Crass actions. A member of the band called "Andy lefton" He commented on Crass page :

Andy Lefton
I'm glad the plug was pulled on APN. They've taken so much away from the DIY community.

It's also funny because "The Old Punk" a member registered on this forum and moderator at a torrent tracker music sharing forum "liked" his comment... He also have his own music download blog. Another fucking hypocrite.

i wish i could tell that certain person they're a dickhead. Unfortunately, nothing is making it past the crass filter.

[theoldpunk]

I haven't been here since early 2010, so calling me a 'member' is pretty disingenuous. If you remember rightly, I left this place after realising that 'ungovernable' is a bit of a dick. It's a shame, because I know there are some good people here too, people with the capacity to think, analyse and understand the real meaning of anarchism and anarcho-punk. 'ungovernable' failed that test a long time ago.

My involvement with PunkTorrents came about as it was a place to get out-of-print stuff, as well as loads of great bootlegs. FYI, I never took anything that was current unless it was a band I didn't know about and wanted to check out before buying. And I gave up using it and being a mod there around the same time that I did here. I'm only back here after seeing what went up on FB re: Crass and A-P.net.

As for my own site, if you take a look you'll see that all I've ever uploaded is stuff that's been long out of print (apart from single tracks from new releases, so people can get a taste).

So people get a clearer picture of where I'm coming from, here's what I posted earlier today on my FB page:

In a way it's a shame A-P.net became what it did, because a site like that has the potential to share music that's long out-of-print and/or with the agreement of the band. But their poor understanding of what anarchism is, coupled with an 'ethic' that seems to think it's OK to steal the labour of others, created a site that is a million miles removed from what anarcho-punk should be.

In all the time I've been uploading stuff to my own site, I've only ever got thanks from people involved with the bands. Some have even told me they didn't have copies of their own releases and were glad to get their hands on their music again, while others have sent me stuff I didn't have with their blessing to share it.

Having said that, I also think the recent activities of some people in / involved with Crass are suspect too (Igs tour and the over-priced remastered CD reissues and vinyl represses). Kinda tarnished their legacy a bit IMHO.

When certain people start acting like adults, then maybe they'll be treated like one.

And that's all I've got to say on the matter.

[butcher]

maybe that should start with yrself you dick. Do you have any fucking understanding of 'intellectual property' at all?

But their poor understanding of what anarchism is, coupled with an 'ethic' that seems to think it's OK to steal the labour of others

at a glance, clearly not you fucking bourgeois bastard.
Fuck i'm sick of these fucking capitalists masquerading as 'radical'.

[manvsmaritoni]

steal the labor of others? we are talking about anarcho punk. if an anarcho punk band wants to sell music on cd/record/tape and or merch at or around cost price to cover the costs of production that is one thing. it is entirely different to sell anarcho punk for profit. it is also totally unreasonable to deny people their right to download it for free. if people want to support the bands, they will buy a record or donate money if they can. if you are playing anarcho punk, you make it available for free. if that doesn't make sense to you, i suggest you find a peaceful place to meditate on this and sort your shit out.

[h3_xe]

CRASS

You have hypocritically attacked the freedom of our internet.
Would you have gone after tape dubbers as well?
The world could use true activists now more than ever.
The attacks on your vendor's sites will subside when you've made a public apology and DO NOT FUCK with ANY file-sharing sites again.
Go join the CIA, you'd fit in better.
We can be MUCH meaner than what we are about to do.

Expect Us.

[Leffer]

War//Plague supports Crass actions. A member of the band called "Andy lefton" He commented on Crass page :

Andy Lefton
I'm glad the plug was pulled on APN. They've taken so much away from the DIY community.

It's also funny because "The Old Punk" a member registered on this forum and moderator at a torrent tracker music sharing forum "liked" his comment... He also have his own music download blog. Another fucking hypocrite.

i wish i could tell that certain person they're a dickhead. Unfortunately, nothing is making it past the crass filter.

Well, now's your chance. But, with that, let me ask you if you even know who I am and what my intentions and thoughts are? Or are you the type to listen to other peoples sheepish garbage and access the situation by making non-educational opinions based on other peoples mis-information? I truly hope I can get an educated response and not just a "dickhead" response. At least owe me the decency of that.

[Leffer]

...and since some folks on here seem to have no clue or rightful information on myself or my personal stance on specific issues. You'll know that neither myself or "War//Plague" have ANY opinion on what CRASS does or has done. For myself, i don't focus on what other past or re-hashed anarcho-jargon has done or who's drama effects who's opinion....don't give a fuck. Worry about what is happening now, currently in our world. Just like CRASS has said "There is no authority, but yourself" learn from that and don't focus on someone elses stupid fucking actions or opinions. Such petty bullshit.

[h3_xe]

It's not just you! http://southern.com looks down from here.

Now you really are losing money CRASS.

To the rest of you: If you have actually followed this band, there is no debate here.

[ungovernable]

I haven't been here since early 2010, so calling me a 'member' is pretty disingenuous.

Why did you post over 100 messages on a website who "has taken so much from the DIY scene" ? hypocrisy much...

If you remember rightly, I left this place after realising that 'ungovernable' is a bit of a dick. It's a shame, because I know there are some good people here too, people with the capacity to think, analyse and understand the real meaning of anarchism and anarcho-punk. 'ungovernable' failed that test a long time ago.

Sorry but we're a lot of dicks who failed to understand how anarchism is compatible with copyrights, DMCA, and capitalist system.

My involvement with PunkTorrents came about as it was a place to get out-of-print stuff,

You're still a big fucking hypocrite for calling Anarcho-Punk.net a "website that has taken so much from the DIY community" while you were a moderator on a website which is way worse than here.

FYI, I never took anything that was current unless it was a band I didn't know about and wanted to check out before buying

People at Anarcho-Punk.net can do the same if they want to.

In a way it's a shame A-P.net became what it did, because a site like that has the potential to share music that's long out-of-print and/or with the agreement of the band. But their poor understanding of what anarchism is, coupled with an 'ethic' that seems to think it's OK to steal the labour of others,

Anarcho-Punk.net didn't BECOME what it is. It was ALWAYS that way since the day we opened the website. A-P.Net never meant to be a website to share old out-of-print stuff, it's a website giving better visibility to anarcho-punk's messages and a place for bands who want to share their stuff to a larger audience through file sharing. The rest is just your assumptions.

Once again we can notice the huge hypocrisy on your message since PunkTorrents was ALWAYS a place to share music that is NOT out-of-print and you encouraged it during years.

If in your opinion file sharing is stealing (funny coming from a pretended anarchist) it's still stealing even if it's out-of-print

created a site that is a million miles removed from what anarcho-punk should be.

Note to self : anarcho-punk is not abour sharing with others but it's all about private proprety. If some old fart said it, it must be true.

In all the time I've been uploading stuff to my own site, I've only ever got thanks from people involved with the bands. Some have even told me they didn't have copies of their own releases and were glad to get their hands on their music again, while others have sent me stuff I didn't have with their blessing to share it.

Same for Anarcho-Punk.net, at the exception of less than 10 individuals during over 4 years.

Same thing for Pirate-Punk.net and QuebecUnderground.net - our sister websites - where even more music is shared.

Having said that, I also think the recent activities of some people in / involved with Crass are suspect too (Igs tour and the over-priced remastered CD reissues and vinyl represses). Kinda tarnished their legacy a bit IMHO.

But using copyright laws is fine and you support it.


It's funny to receive moral lessons from a fucking idiot who feels it's a good thing that someone sent DMCA and used copyrights laws to take music down while they could have just contacted us. I suppose that's your definition of anarcho-punk where we stand miles away ?

[Anarcho4Life]

It's all about money these days. It's seems to be the only thing that people care about. What ever happen to getting your message across anyway possible? I have music from bands all across the globe, and it's all thanks to file sharing. I guess Crass wants their message to die along with them. I will show this to everyone I know and hopefully they will do the same.

[ungovernable]

http://www.steveignorant.co.uk = tango down

[h3_xe]

Nice shot!!

[punkmar77]

To the old punk: Do you realize what this site means to thousands of anarcho punks around the world? Do you really believe that the thousands of bands that have uploaded their own material on here don't matter because you feel like ungovernable is a dick? Save it mate, you only managed to disparage yourself with your comments.

[ungovernable]

Fight Crass not punk
Fight Crass not punk
Fight Crass not punk
Fight Crass not punk

Anarchy and peace promote the crass
It ain't for freedom it's just for cash
They don't mean what they say
What they preach there is no way

Bullshit Crass you've been detected
Duties have your shit rejected
Bullshit Crass You've been detected
Bullshit Crass You've been detected
We'll free the punks that you've injected
Bullshit Crass You've been detected

[punkmar77]

Or are you the type to listen to other peoples sheepish garbage and access the situation by making non-educational opinions based on other peoples mis-information?

please...