Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

Is punk more a subculture or social movement?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by ryan1980, Aug 6, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    2

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Yeah, i saw that too after i responded to yr post. :ecouteurs:
     
  2. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    676

    4

    6

    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Yeah, difference between propaganda and education is that propaganda *might* be bullshit, and the intent behind it. Difficult to see how any public debate can even exist without it.
     
  3. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    676

    4

    6

    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Sez here, or what was here. It not here any more. Some online dictionary thing.
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    The difference between propaganda and education is on objectivism.

    All anarchist texts are not objective, actually in politics almost nothing is objective, everything is propaganda. It is impossible to find anarchist texts that are not propaganda, or else it wouldn't be called anarchist texts. Even a simple critic of capitalism is still propaganda. A text that wouldn't be propaganda would have to explain the positive aspect of capitalism and never talk about abolishing capitalism, which would be a fucking shitty text, but following what you have said it would be better than anarchist litterature since it wouldn't be propaganda.
    I repeat: any text that talk about anarchism as a solution IS propaganda.

    What you don't understand is that there is nothing wrong with propaganda in anarchism. Actually it is a good thing, i don't see why you focus on the propaganda thing, obviously YES the objective is to persuade someone that anarchism is positive, what the fuck would you expect ? Are you scared to be too dumb enough to critic what you read ? You want to understand what anarchism is and how it works, don't you ? How the fuck are you going to understand what without reading propaganda ?

    Anarchism is all about propaganda and persuading people.

    If you're so scared of propaganda stop listening to anarcho-punk music. And also leave this forum, since we're propagandists.
     
  5. ryan1980

    ryan1980 Experienced Member Experienced member


    94

    1

    0

    Jul 9, 2010
     
    Ungov is right in saying that objectivism is key. The root however, is in logical deduction. 'Propaganda' that is successful (or at least makes an ernest attempt) at making vaild, and sound points is no less propaganda but is more accurate than deceptive propaganda. Deceptive propaganda( usually grey or black) exploits the average person's lack of critical analysis and faith in the written word (thanks a lot religion...) by explicitly using a logical fallacy to convey falsehood regarding a given subject.

    While I hate citing wikipedia as a source, they do have a good list of deceptive propaganda tactics:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

    compare that with a list of logical fallicies and you'll see...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

    While the texts are never objective, the person reading still needs to be so they can then review it analytically.
     
  6. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    2

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    You have two contradictory phrases in this post.
    So, when did Capitalism stop being political?
    Also, politics and economics are always subjective.
     
  7. persona-non-grata

    persona-non-grata Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    318

    0

    0

    Mar 9, 2010
     
    you know what ungov fuck you i personaly don't listen to the pistols a lot but i do sometimes listen to their first album and as you say they sold out but that is what they did they were just working class kids who were pissed off and finding a way to get out of the gutter so they were trying to get as many money as they could plus they were not anarcho punk and defenatly not anarchist witch is why i dont listen to them a lot but since i do so sometimes you must probably ban me because i'm not anarchist enough and i did not read enough books or whatever (i blame the dyslexia for the reading part just hate reading because it's really hard for me i try though) so shoot me i'm not anarchist enough for your beliefs :ecouteurs: :anarchism:
     
  8. persona-non-grata

    persona-non-grata Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    318

    0

    0

    Mar 9, 2010
     
    ow blame the dyslexia for my bad writing too XD
     
  9. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    676

    4

    6

    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Early PIL is good too.
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    i don't understand ???? i don't see any contradictions, and i never said capitalism isn't political...

    Wow another delirium... did you take your pills today ? I never talked about banning someone just because he listen to the sex pistols, you're crazy...

    You admit that the sex pistols are sellout and only care about making money, uh ok... That's exactly my point... Now i don't give a fuck if you listen to them sometimes, at least you are not promoting the biggest sellout of the punk scene in your avatar on an anarchist forum... And if you do, expect to be critized, this is just common sense..
    They were not anarchists but they pretended to be.
     
  11. persona-non-grata

    persona-non-grata Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    318

    0

    0

    Mar 9, 2010
     
    tell me something i don't already know

    and no i don't have to take and or not take any pills to be fed up with and pissed of at someone claiming to be so anarchist but in the meanwhile judging everyone who does not think alike i mean for fuck sake judging someone because of a fucking picture :ecouteurs:

    up yours sincerely

    nutz!
     
  12. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    ........and you are surprised to be judged by anarcho-punks for worshipping johnny rotten on an anarchist forum ???

    Maybe crass were also fake anarchists when they talked shit about the sex pistols and johnny rotten.....

    he clearly defended johnny rotten, he was saying he's not a sell out and he always been honest.... i think i should copy the PM he sent to me...

    i will repeat once again that the only thing i said is that it is very contradictory to say that:
    While he is supporting the biggest apathetic sellout asshole of the punk scene. He care more about drinking beer and making money with corporatism rather that caring about civil rights, corporatism and pollution.

    In other words, he is supporting exactly what he pretend to hate and what he is critising. He say he hate how punks became but he is exactly like what he critise.

    If you don't see the contradiction and the hypocrisy in that, then there's nothing i can do for you.
     
  13. persona-non-grata

    persona-non-grata Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    318

    0

    0

    Mar 9, 2010
     
    ow i see his contradiction and hypocrisy it's just that if you browse around on this forum the topics that do get alot of response is mostly you criticizing everyone else's opinion and people getting pissed about that and people agreeing with you and i'm sick of seeing the only topics that get reaction are the ones you end up in the same kind of argument with people just because you don't agree with them and if they do not believe what you do they're not anarchist because you're mr anarchy himself well i'm sick and tired of this forum isn't even about anarchism anymore it's about who agrees with ungov and who doesn't well fuck that!

    i hope one day you'll see YOUR contradictions and hypocrisy so it would make you a little less of an idiot but that's just my opinion and some people will hate me for it and some hopefully agree with me :ecouteurs:
     
  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States

    sound reasoning is an amazing human quality.....thank you ryan, very eloquent
     
  15. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Well I say fuck the pistols and fuck you if you get all hurt because I say fuck the pistols, what do you own stock in their street cred? Give me a fuckin' break, let's all worship at the golden calf of 'punk' and how dare anyone criticize anything that is an accepted institution....thin skinned motherfuckers. I've listened to this weak assed argument for 32 years and it's as stale as it ever was. Since when has punk been one big happy family? We all have opinions, and as I've said before, they are all valid....just don't get all emotional when someone doesn't agree. Ungovernable isn't running for Miss Congeniality and is really rough around the edges....so fuckin' what? That's punk as fuck in my book. Get over your little hurt feelings and deal with it, cuz he ain't going to change....and in the end if you don't like it ......kick rocks, no one is holding a gun to your head saying you have to be part of this forum.

    {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure} {pleure}
     
  16. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    2

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    It's because you state that a pro-Capitalism text wouldn't be propaganda.
     
  17. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    it's a fucking debate forum, don't critise me for not agreeing with people and voicing my opinion.

    if you are sick of this forum, just get the fuck out, no one force you to stay here.

    if you joined a debate forum while thinking we would only agree with each other and where all replys would be just saying "i agree" and "you're so right" then you joined the wrong forum.

    thats not what i meant

    i meant a text that wouldn't be propaganda would have to talk about the positive aspects of capitalism AND the negative aspects, which would be the same bullshit you can see on the TV or on shitty mass media journals, and on top of all it can't talk about a solution or an alternative to capitalism because that would be propaganda.
    any text that talk about advantages of capitalism is just lies, if ppl want to read this bullshit about the advantage of capitalism they can just read neoliberalism litterature
     
  18. persona-non-grata

    persona-non-grata Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    318

    0

    0

    Mar 9, 2010
     
    i wasn't really talking about arguing about the topics i was talking about the same silly arguments over and over againt that have nothing to do with the topics take this one for example it was a pretty good topic people were seriously replying and then out of nowhere the argument is about the sex pistols and who is punk and who isn't because they do or don't listen to the sex pistols put on a topic about it actually there probably already is and if someone does not want to debate on the sex pistols or the exploited or the sex pistols or whatever band there is something wrong with they look for topics that are not about that yet every time ungov get in a long lasting argument with anyone it is about that or it's about that person being crazy or nazi even and i'm like ok if you want to argue about that stuff then do but not on the topics that are supposed to be something completely else :ecouteurs:
     
  19. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    2

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    comparing and/or evaluating two subjective political positions does not maketh an objective report. Rather a comparison of propaganda. ;)
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.