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Marilyn Manson

Discuss anarcho-punk music and music in general, the punk & skinhead movements and the scene, your favorite bands and albums, etc...

Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby The Freakboi on 09/05/2011, 04:48

Burn1ng wrote:It was well known by everyone on the Hollywood scene that Syme had lost her daughter just around a year ago, now if you are the anarchist and conscious punk you claim to be answer me this.

Would you give illegal substances to somebody who was obviously still heavily depressed after losing A CHILD? If your answer is yes, then perhaps you shouldn't be here...

Just so you know, Jennifer was Keanu Reeves' girlfriend for some time, after their daughter (Ava Archer Reeves) was stillborn in december 1999, they broke up but remained good friends.

She obviously didn't have to take those substances, but in the condition she was she should've been kept away from them. Wasn't it likely that if offered something that would make the pain go away for even just a little she would just accept? wouldn't you? After all she was just a human being.

Way I see it, it's not her fault having poor (justified) judgment, it was Manson's fault for offering her stuff he knew she couldn't handle in the first place.


It was still entirely her own choice. Anyway, given that this was indeed Hollywood, she was probably already on the coke long before she lost her child. Its just part of the culture there. But even if it was just down to depression, it was still her choice to make.

As for me not being a true anarchist because I wouldn't want to tell someone what they can and can't do in regards to something like drugs... well I'll just let that speak for itself.
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Burn1ng on 09/05/2011, 09:14

Do you really like Manson that much that you would justify anything he does?

Can you really put this woman in the same bag as most of the Hollywood scum and STATE that she was a junkie long before losing her child?

The fact is that you didn't know her and neither did I, but if you think that you can actually generalize like that... well then I'll let that speak for itself.

And then again you generalize by treating a woman whose mind was obviously traumatized as if her mind was normal like the rest of the people at that party, she couldn't be held liable for her actions as much as a brazilian child in a favela could be held responsible for being a thief or a gang member and shooting people.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby JackNegativity on 09/05/2011, 10:11

Burn1ng wrote:Do you really like Manson that much that you would justify anything he does?

Can you really put this woman in the same bag as most of the Hollywood scum and STATE that she was a junkie long before losing her child?

The fact is that you didn't know her and neither did I, but if you think that you can actually generalize like that... well then I'll let that speak for itself.

And then again you generalize by treating a woman whose mind was obviously traumatized as if her mind was normal like the rest of the people at that party, she couldn't be held liable for her actions as much as a brazilian child in a favela could be held responsible for being a thief or a gang member and shooting people.


So, as an "anarchist" you're proposing telling people how to live their lives if you feel they're unfit to decide for themselves? Interesting.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Burn1ng on 09/05/2011, 10:23

So you rather have them kill themselves? How is that more anarchist?.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby gobbledigooks on 09/05/2011, 10:38

Right, depressions and post traumatics after loosing a child allow not much of a "free" choice - that's why we call them "mental problems" - and at least for me Anarchism is about responsibility and some common sense, not just laissez fairez and risking the big bang at the end.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Burn1ng on 09/05/2011, 10:42

...Which is why I said that Manson shouldn't have offered anything to her, it's a responsibility and common sense matter.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby The Freakboi on 09/05/2011, 10:51

Burn1ng wrote:Do you really like Manson that much that you would justify anything he does?

Can you really put this woman in the same bag as most of the Hollywood scum and STATE that she was a junkie long before losing her child?

The fact is that you didn't know her and neither did I, but if you think that you can actually generalize like that... well then I'll let that speak for itself.

And then again you generalize by treating a woman whose mind was obviously traumatized as if her mind was normal like the rest of the people at that party, she couldn't be held liable for her actions as much as a brazilian child in a favela could be held responsible for being a thief or a gang member and shooting people.


Well first off, I'm not a Manson fan. Secondly, you criticize me for generalizing, but you are making an assumption that, because someone was suffering from depression, they weren't in control of their own actions. Also, are you suggesting that drugs are suddenly less dangerous if you aren't suffering from any mental trauma. Anyone else at that party who consumed the same drugs could have wound up in the same situation, regardless of their mental state. Actually, its not even limited to illegal drugs, she could have gone to a bar, got drunk and wound up dying, she could get just as fucked up on prescription drugs.

Its fairly standard for someone who has become depressed at the loss of a loved one to get really drunk at a party, and most friends will consider that to be a way of cheering up. Yes, its misguided, but I know that when a friend of mine who is bipolar got dumped by his girlfriend, he went to a party and got drunk. Was every person at that party suddenly responsible for him if anything bad happened? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

Also, how is occasionally taking coke at parties being a junkie. What I was getting at was she could have gone to any party in Hollywood, got just as wasted and no-one would bat an eyelid.
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Burn1ng on 09/05/2011, 11:00

Well of course they were responsible for him!!! I can't believe the level of apathy you're suggesting people should have when dealing with someone that can be potentially dangerous to himself and or others. What if he got so drunk and depressed that he ended up hurting people at that party or if he caused an accident and ended up killing someone? Are you saying that no one would be guilty for it?

Ok, I thought wrong that you treated her as a junkie, but still your post comes off as terribly apathetic, just because they're hollywood people that doesn't make their attitude right, I could expect that kind of behavior from the likes of Manson and them, but not from anarchists who claim to care for their fellow human beings.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Bakica on 09/05/2011, 11:05

JackNegativity wrote:
So, as an "anarchist" you're proposing telling people how to live their lives if you feel they're unfit to decide for themselves? Interesting.

:bad:



Well, you can't let a crazy man with a knife running your streets, can you ? Anyway, anarchy should have a better way with dealing this kind of problem, but would you give him freedom if there's a big chance he will do something bad ? I...don't think so. Hospitals can be like prisons, but if the person is retarted / has some serious problems, then I think that's the best choice.

Also - I would like to say, I didn't read the whole thread I'm just jumping in disscusion becouse I find this subject interesting to disscus.
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby The Freakboi on 09/05/2011, 11:21

Burn1ng wrote:Well of course they were responsible for him!!! I can't believe the level of apathy you're suggesting people should have when dealing with someone that can be potentially dangerous to himself and or others. What if he got so drunk and depressed that he ended up hurting people at that party or if he caused an accident and ended up killing someone? Are you saying that no one would be guilty for it?

Ok, I thought wrong that you treated her as a junkie, but still your post comes off as terribly apathetic, just because they're hollywood people that doesn't make their attitude right, I could expect that kind of behavior from the likes of Manson and them, but not from anarchists who claim to care for their fellow human beings.


I agree there was a level of irresponsibility involved, but the fact is that parties, by their very nature, are prone to irresponsible actions. You're ignoring many factors here: As I pointed out earlier, someone who is mentally healthy could have the same accidents and act the same way under the influence. This was a party where everyone was taking drugs, because of this, Manson was probably fucked up when he gave the drugs to her, coke affects your judgement. Also, when my friend went to the party, everyone saw it as bringing him to a social situation where he was less likely to get drunk on his own, not have friends around to cheer him up and maybe even kill himself.
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby gobbledigooks on 09/05/2011, 11:28

Was every person at that party suddenly responsible for him if anything bad happened? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.


At local parties around here intoxicated people are always asked for their car keys - just to prevent the big bang for them and others who might get involved in a car crash - it's just common sense and care for each other.

I for example have a widely known tendency to drink too much and much too fast - how many times this kind of a special care has saved my and others lives?

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Burn1ng on 09/05/2011, 12:00

Yeah but the same friends who brought him in to "cheer up" could have ended up making him drink even more alcohol than he should and therefore still would have gotten himself kill on a car accident, and that would actually have been worse if he had stayed in his room drinking too much and hanging himself later, and to be honest I'm still not convinced that a depressed person reacts the same way on booze than a mentally healthy one, after all we are all different and therefore we don't know exactly how we will react in certain situations.

Yeah probably Manson was fucked up when he offered Syme the substances but to me he's not excused of what he did for being drugged, as I'd also find it inexcusable for other drugged people to cause accidents or hurt others while being high, if I were to lose someone close to me for their actions, I wouldn't really care if they were drugged or not I'd still held them accountable for it.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby The Freakboi on 09/05/2011, 13:15

gobbledigooks wrote:
Was every person at that party suddenly responsible for him if anything bad happened? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.


At local parties around here intoxicated people are always asked for their car keys - just to prevent the big bang for them and others who might get involved in a car crash - it's just common sense and care for each other.

I for example have a widely known tendency to drink too much and much too fast - how many times this kind of a special care has saved my and others lives?


That's actually not a bad idea, though it wouldn't necessarily work. I remember we actually wrestled this guy called Boney to the ground to get his car keys off him (he was completely hammered and decided to drive home) and the next thing we knew, he was trying to walk home along the Duel Carriageway.

Burn1ng wrote:Yeah but the same friends who brought him in to "cheer up" could have ended up making him drink even more alcohol than he should and therefore still would have gotten himself kill on a car accident, and that would actually have been worse if he had stayed in his room drinking too much and hanging himself later, and to be honest I'm still not convinced that a depressed person reacts the same way on booze than a mentally healthy one, after all we are all different and therefore we don't know exactly how we will react in certain situations.


Its very easy to think like that in hindsight but I stand by the fact that you don't have to be depressed to drink drive. You just need to be drunk.

Burn1ng wrote:Yeah probably Manson was fucked up when he offered Syme the substances but to me he's not excused of what he did for being drugged, as I'd also find it inexcusable for other drugged people to cause accidents or hurt others while being high, if I were to lose someone close to me for their actions, I wouldn't really care if they were drugged or not I'd still held them accountable for it.


So Manson was responsible for his actions but Syme wasn't? Once, Ozzy Osbourne, after taking coke, was caught wearing a night gown and Wellington boots, chasing a chicken around with a shotgun. Now, as funny as that must have looked, it pretty much proves that cocaine makes you do astronomically stupid and dangerous shit, regardless of your prior mental condition. Therefore, Manson and Syme must be equally responsible for their own actions, regardless of whether you think they are responsible or not.
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Burn1ng on 09/05/2011, 14:01

You do make a point... however Manson wasn't the one who lost his child, while most of us will act completely stupid under heavy drug abuse... Syme's circumstances were a bit different, or do you think that your friend breaking up with his girlfriend can compare to losing your firstborn at birth?.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby The Freakboi on 09/05/2011, 14:17

Burn1ng wrote:You do make a point... however Manson wasn't the one who lost his child, while most of us will act completely stupid under heavy drug abuse... Syme's circumstances were a bit different, or do you think that your friend breaking up with his girlfriend can compare to losing your firstborn at birth?.


You can't objectify it, to you or me it wouldn't even compare. To him, it probably would be just as bad because he's bipolar, he can be suicidal one day and be absolutely fine the next.
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby JackNegativity on 09/05/2011, 14:41

Not every person with depression is the same, so i think you are the one who's generalizing. People deal with things in their own ways, and different people have different tolerance levels to certain substances. You can't really say somebody drinking/taking drugs during depression is irresponsible, because you really only have the right to speak for yourself. To some, it's a legitimate way to feel better. The same is true for the person who supplied it in this case. You said yourself you knew neither of them, so for all you know he was just trying to help a friend feel better. Or even just sharing his shit at a party *GASP!* with people, including her. Seems like you're building a cross to crucify Marilyn Manson with yet you can't be sure you know the whole story. It's hip to bash on him for his shitty music, and that is the basis of your opinion on this matter. Nevermind the countless people who could've taken her keys...

Anyway, this subject is stupid.
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Bakica on 09/05/2011, 16:24

JackNegativity wrote:Anyway, this subject is stupid.


You just hate me, don't you :'(
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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby Burn1ng on 09/05/2011, 19:08

@JackNegativity

Just as you argue that I bullshit Manson only because it's hip to do so, I could perfectly say that you defend him just so you can be "anti-hip" and earn some more cool points in the boards here.

Well I at least am not getting any more popular by bringing the information about Syme in here now, am I?

And you don't know them either... so it's becoming pretty clear that we'll never know what really happened that day... but it could be what you say, Manson probably just wanted her to have a good time but if that was true why just not say it? Why be so secretive about it? Cause he's scared of some conservative parents? He's never been scared of them nor the authorities before, so why start now!.

Thing is... that Manson has lawsuits all around the US, sure, there's always the chance that he had nothing to do with Syme's death but given his overall shittyness as a person (that I don't think can be denied) it wouldn't surprise me if he did, and therefore I tend to side more with Syme's mother than a celebrity who makes shitty music and thinks himself an artist.

@Freakboi

Fuck I forgot the "bipolar" bit... Sorry. Well then you're probably right, to be honest I've been told already (not on the board) that I don't know what happened that day so I can't judge, however I already said why it wouldn't surprise me if Manson was indirectly the cause of her death.

So in conclusion I guess we'll never know what happened but anyway... I don't think I'll ever have the same respect I did for David Lynch.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby SenI on 09/05/2011, 22:09

I don't understand so why been made topic about sickly Marilyn Manson. He's sucks. His music is sung to about ugly and gothic nonsense. I never liked his music, but still he has a couple of songs that I may listen to it.

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Re: Marilyn Manson

Postby skulldrix on 13/07/2011, 13:55

HIs music is definetly overrated.
His art isn't even that original hes just a hybrid of many artists before him, as are is counterparts.
Dude is loaded with cash.
Even tho he can say some really good points, because hes given the fucking authority and elevation to do so.

I have no reason to like him.

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